OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

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RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

  • 1.  RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    Posted 08-15-2006 17:48
    
    
    
    
    


  • 2.  RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    Posted 08-15-2006 18:06
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    The mechanism is standard index page number merging.  This is the way most standards that speak of indexing and most indexing tools that I have seen in the last 25 years work.
     
    Our implementation allows users to specify the minumum number of consecutive page numbers before merging into a range in the result (or to turn off merging altogether).  The default is 3, and few customers change that.  Our customers would certainly complain if we did no automatic page number merging.
     
    paul


    From: JoAnn Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, 2006 August 15 12:47
    To: Grosso, Paul; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    I would not agree with the result assumptions. What mechanism exists for the numbers 5, 6, 7, and 8 to be concatenated into a range 5-8?  A continuous discussion ranging over pages 5-8 does not mean the same as points referenced by the number 5, 6, 7, and 8. The indexer should be solely responsible for determining when a range of pages is used, not have some automatic decision made.

    JoAnn

    JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
    President
    Comtech Services, Inc.
    710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
    Denver, CO 80215
    303-232-7586
    joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com
    joannhackos Skype

    www.comtech-serv.com


    From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:21 AM
    To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    I generally agree with Bruce here.

     

    But I also need to take issue with:

     

    new ranged indexterms they add would cause these old point indexterms to be misinterpreted

     

    With our existing indexterm markup, you cannot distinguish between use of indexterms and ranges by looking at the resulting index. An indexterm marks a point, and the page on which that point falls will be included in the resulting index. An index range marks a start and end point, and all pages starting with the one on which the start point falls and ending with the one on which the end point falls will be included in the resulting index.

     

    Unless one has a fancier indexing process whereby one can, say, request a bold page number in the index for the most important reference and italic page numbers for pages on which there are related figures, etc., there is no distinction among page numbers in the resulting index.

     

    Looking at the resulting index, one cannot tell if index-page-range markup was used to create that index or not. A resulting index entry of:

     

    cheese  2, 5-8, 12

     

    could have been generated by pointwise indexterm markup throughout the source that just so happened to end up being points on pages 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 12.

     

    paul

     


    From: Esrig, Bruce (Bruce) [mailto:esrig@lucent.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, 2006 August 15 11:53
    To: Dana Spradley
    Cc: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    On the other hand, Dana,

     

    This logic could be applied to outlaw any extension, since every user would have to review every document to determine whether they had intended to use the extension.

     

    With DITA 1.1, we clarify that an indexterm designates a point at which to start reading about the indexed subject. The DITA 1.1 conceit is that this was true all along. In DITA 1.0, this aspect of the interpretation was unspecified because there was no way to specify anything else. But if it even makes sense to take sides on this, it's possible to argue that the default disambiguation is the DITA 1.1 way. Indexing practice typically presumes that an index entry refers to a point at which to start reading.

     

    For those who wish to specify a range of pages possibly not starting at the top of a topic, a new capability is provided that permits such a specification. The specification of a range generates a page range in outputs that have page numbers, such as PDF files. In other outputs, it generates a reference to the start page only.

     

    Best wishes,

     


    From: Dana Spradley [mailto:dana.spradley@oracle.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:41 PM
    To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: [dita] Are indexterm ranges backwards incompatible?

    After this morning's meeting, I'm starting to think that maybe ranged indexterm should be considered backwards incompatible with DITA 1.0.

    In 1.0, it is ambiguous whether indexterms point to discussions confined to a single page, or to extended discussions that begin on a certain page.

    Introducing ranged indexterms removes that ambiguity.

    Users who want to make use of ranged indexterms would need to go back through their entire document set and replace current point indexterms with ranged indexterms where appropriate - otherwise any new ranged indexterms they add would cause these old point indexterms to be misinterpreted.

    Doesn't that amount to backwards incompatibility?

    --Dana