OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD?

 
Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward?
 
--Scott
 

From:
<dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com>
Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM
To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs?


 

We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision.
Reasons to not ship XSDs

·         
We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG.

Reasons to ship XSDs

·         
Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there.

Thoughts? Extra lists to add?


--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

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We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com>, DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

I don't know what can be done with RNG, but I've experimented doing the following: Using Trang to generate XSD from DTDs Using oXygen's Flatten schema tool Hand crafted changes produce a single XSD that validates Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/18/2018 10:49 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> , DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

I would like to see at least one of those companies participate on the TC and to contribute technical resources for the for the inclusion and maintenance of XSD. Unless that happens, I am willing to say goodbye to XSD in 2.0. Best regards, Bob Thomas On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Kristen James Eberlein < kris@eberleinconsulting.com > wrote: I don't know what can be done with RNG, but I've experimented doing the following: Using Trang to generate XSD from DTDs Using oXygen's "Flatten schema" tool Hand crafted changes produce a single XSD that validates Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/18/2018 10:49 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758 -3400, AUSTIN, USA Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> , DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/app s/org/workgroup/portal/my_work groups.php -- Bob Thomas +1 720 201 8260 Skype: bob.thomas.colorado Instant messaging: Gmail chat ( bob.thomas@tagsmiths.com ) or Skype Time zone: Mountain (GMT-7)

cc Chet. This surely can't be a question unique to DITA? Does OASIS provide any advice or suggestions about the formats to use to deliver its standards? David I would like to see at least one of those companies participate on the TC and to contribute technical resources for the for the inclusion and maintenance of XSD. Unless that happens, I am willing to say goodbye to XSD in 2.0. Best regards, Bob Thomas On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Kristen James Eberlein < kris@eberleinconsulting.com > wrote: I don't know what can be done with RNG, but I've experimented doing the following: Using Trang to generate XSD from DTDs Using oXygen's Flatten schema tool Hand crafted changes produce a single XSD that validates Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/18/2018 10:49 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758 -3400, AUSTIN, USA <1C886291.gif> <graycol.gif> Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> , DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/app s/org/workgroup/portal/my_work groups.php -- Bob Thomas +1 720 201 8260 Skype: bob.thomas.colorado Instant messaging: Gmail chat ( bob.thomas@tagsmiths.com ) or Skype Time zone: Mountain (GMT-7)

Hi David,  I am not sure what other Technical Committees have grappled with this question. In general though, to answer your question, I stay out of technical discussions in the TCs. You all are the experts on the needs of your specifications adopters and users.  I can ask around for you and see if I can find others who have worked on this if you'd all like.  Best,  /chet On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:14 AM, David Hollis < dhollis@aandoconsultancy.ltd.uk > wrote: cc Chet. This surely can't be a question unique to DITA? Does OASIS provide any advice or suggestions about the formats to use to deliver its standards? David I would like to see at least one of those companies participate on the TC and to contribute technical resources for the for the inclusion and maintenance of XSD. Unless that happens, I am willing to say goodbye to XSD in 2.0. Best regards, Bob Thomas On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Kristen James Eberlein < kris@eberleinconsulting.com > wrote: I don't know what can be done with RNG, but I've experimented doing the following: Using Trang to generate XSD from DTDs Using oXygen's "Flatten schema" tool Hand crafted changes produce a single XSD that validates Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/18/2018 10:49 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758 -3400, AUSTIN, USA <1C886291.gif> <graycol.gif> Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> , DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/app s/org/workgroup/portal/my_work groups.php -- Bob Thomas +1 720 201 8260 Skype: bob.thomas.colorado Instant messaging: Gmail chat ( bob.thomas@tagsmiths.com ) or Skype Time zone: Mountain (GMT-7) -- /chet  ---------------- Looking forward to  Borderless Cyber 2018 ,  3-5 Oct , Washington, D.C. Organized by The World Bank, OASIS, and Georgetown University Chet Ensign Chief Technical Community Steward OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org Primary: +1 973-996-2298 Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 

Chet, I think we're fine on this issue; no need to do any legwork for us. Thanks for your generous offer, 'tho! Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/19/2018 9:41 AM, Chet Ensign wrote: Hi David,  I am not sure what other Technical Committees have grappled with this question. In general though, to answer your question, I stay out of technical discussions in the TCs. You all are the experts on the needs of your specifications adopters and users.  I can ask around for you and see if I can find others who have worked on this if you'd all like.  Best,  /chet On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:14 AM, David Hollis < dhollis@aandoconsultancy.ltd.uk > wrote: cc Chet. This surely can't be a question unique to DITA? Does OASIS provide any advice or suggestions about the formats to use to deliver its standards? David I would like to see at least one of those companies participate on the TC and to contribute technical resources for the for the inclusion and maintenance of XSD. Unless that happens, I am willing to say goodbye to XSD in 2.0. Best regards, Bob Thomas On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Kristen James Eberlein < kris@eberleinconsulting.com > wrote: I don't know what can be done with RNG, but I've experimented doing the following: Using Trang to generate XSD from DTDs Using oXygen's Flatten schema tool Hand crafted changes produce a single XSD that validates Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/18/2018 10:49 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: We have also discussed shipping XSDs that are not modular, but are generated from another format (presumably from a modular RNG). I know there has been some difficulty doing this lately -- the process isn't as straightforward as I'd hoped -- but this is something we should be able to work out far more easily than trying to generate modular XSD files that follow the DITA 1.x design patterns. Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification Marketing Services Center E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758 -3400, AUSTIN, USA <1C886291.gif> <graycol.gif> Scott Hudson ---06/18/2018 09:40:32 AM---Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to th From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@jeppesen.com> To: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> , DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 06/18/2018 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Of those editors listed, which ones also support RNG or DTD? Perhaps if we can narrow the list to those that rely solely on XSD, it might make the decision more straight-forward? --Scott From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Monday, June 18, 2018 at 8:36 AM To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: Will we ship XSDs? We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs · We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs · Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/app s/org/workgroup/portal/my_work groups.php -- Bob Thomas +1 720 201 8260 Skype: bob.thomas.colorado Instant messaging: Gmail chat ( bob.thomas@tagsmiths.com ) or Skype Time zone: Mountain (GMT-7) -- /chet  ---------------- Looking forward to  Borderless Cyber 2018 ,  3-5 Oct , Washington, D.C. Organized by The World Bank, OASIS, and Georgetown University Chet Ensign Chief Technical Community Steward OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org Primary: +1 973-996-2298 Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 

I would not ship XSDs.  The reason that several authoring solutions use them is not at all compelling. They are all commercial products and should be able to generate base XSDs in whatever way they see fit. It is not a task of the TC to provide XSDs that only play a role in commercial products. In fact, I would love to also ditch the DTDs, but they can be generated from the RNGs (if you have the right transformation and setup for it) and there are many open source tools relying on them. Jang F.M. Graat Smart Information Design Amsterdam, Netherlands Cell: +31 646 854 996 On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:36, Kristen James Eberlein < kris@eberleinconsulting.com > wrote: We've talked about this a few times, but we've never come to a decision. Reasons to not ship XSDs We cannot generate them automatically from the RNG. Reasons to ship XSDs Editors such as Xopus/SDL Content Editor, XEditor, FontoXML use them. Of course, SDL reworks the XSDs, so the argument is less compelling there. Thoughts? Extra lists to add? -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php