UBL Transportation SC

Hello TSC, I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). I note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure out what. Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? Jon

here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to be careful changing them. On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: Hello TSC, I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). I note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure out what. Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org Attachment: ShipmentConsignment-2.ppt Description: MS-Powerpoint presentation begin:vcard fn:Tim McGrath n:McGrath;Tim org:Document Engineering Services email;internet:tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com title:Managing Director tel;work:+61893352228 tel;home:+61438352228 tel;cell:+61438352228 url:www.documentengineeringservices.com version:2.1 end:vcard

The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of this in the hubdoc? I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown in slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? Jon Tim McGrath wrote: here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to be careful changing them. On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: Hello TSC, I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). I note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure out what. Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org

yes, if you look at the 'central' consignment on slide 5 (the consolidated one between the two forwarders) it needs to describe the two shipments (Supplier A to Buyer A and Supplier B to Buyer B) it is covering. a forwarder consolidates consignments and their associated shipment details into one single consignment. the receiving forwarder needs to de-consolidate so they have to know how to split them up again. there will be a shipment from Forwarder A to Forwarder B (a contract to carry) but that is not shown on the diagrams On 4/07/12 11:56 PM, Jon Bosak wrote: The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of this in the hubdoc? I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown in slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? Jon Tim McGrath wrote: here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to be careful changing them. On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: Hello TSC, I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). I note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure out what. Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org begin:vcard fn:Tim McGrath n:McGrath;Tim org:Document Engineering Services email;internet:tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com title:Managing Director tel;work:+61893352228 tel;home:+61438352228 tel;cell:+61438352228 url:www.documentengineeringservices.com version:2.1 end:vcard

The "Shipment", when facilitated by an international freight forwarder, represents the whole end-to-end organization of the goods transport on behalf of the Shipper. A Shipment possibly involves one or more Carriers and related transport contracts (one or more consignments in a single shipment). The consolidated shipment is a transport optimization organized by the freight forwarder to ensure a given container is fully loaded (FCL - Full Container Load). This is to save money but also to provide a more competitive tariff. In a single container the freight forwarder can consolidate several consignments of different Shippers (AKA: grouppage) until the container is full. So we have these cases: a) 1 Shipment - 1 Consignment b) 1 Shipment - many Consignments (many carriers) of the same Shipper c) 1 Shipment - many Consignment of different Shippers (grouppage/consolidated shipment) d) Splitted shipment (huge shipment) even using different vessels (so pratically different consignments) Hope this helps, Ciao Roberto > The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of > this in the hubdoc? > > I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. > Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown in > slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment > pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? > > Jon > > Tim McGrath wrote: >> here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options for >> shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these >> definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to be >> careful changing them. >> >> >> On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: >>> Hello TSC, >>> >>> I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library >>> and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). >>> I >>> note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under >>> the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but >>> I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple >>> consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has >>> something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure >>> out >>> what. >>> >>> Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections >>> of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > -- * JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino * * Document Engineering Services Ltd. - Alliance Member * UBL Italian Localization SubCommittee (ITLSC), co-Chair * UBL Online Community editorial board member (ubl.xml.org) * Italian UBL Advisor Roberto Cisternino mobile: +39 328 2148123 skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc [UBL Technical Committee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl [UBL Online Community] http://ubl.xml.org [UBL International Conferences] http://www.ublconference.org [UBL Italian Localization Subcommittee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl-itlsc [Iniziativa divulgativa UBL Italia] http://www.ubl-italia.org

Very helpful, Roberto. Thanks! Jon Roberto Cisternino wrote: The "Shipment", when facilitated by an international freight forwarder, represents the whole end-to-end organization of the goods transport on behalf of the Shipper. A Shipment possibly involves one or more Carriers and related transport contracts (one or more consignments in a single shipment). The consolidated shipment is a transport optimization organized by the freight forwarder to ensure a given container is fully loaded (FCL - Full Container Load). This is to save money but also to provide a more competitive tariff. In a single container the freight forwarder can consolidate several consignments of different Shippers (AKA: grouppage) until the container is full. So we have these cases: a) 1 Shipment - 1 Consignment b) 1 Shipment - many Consignments (many carriers) of the same Shipper c) 1 Shipment - many Consignment of different Shippers (grouppage/consolidated shipment) d) Splitted shipment (huge shipment) even using different vessels (so pratically different consignments) Hope this helps, Ciao Roberto The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of this in the hubdoc? I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown in slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? Jon Tim McGrath wrote: here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to be careful changing them. On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: Hello TSC, I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). I note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of consolidation, but I can't figure out what. Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org

Jon, I am just now catching up on the email exchanges after recovering from power outages and oppressive heat (still). I am definitely in support of your suggestion about capturing this discussion about shipments and consignments in the hub document. I believe a separate subsection somewhere near the front of the document may be best since both procurement and transport use the term "shipment" if not also "consignment". Tim's charts along with the comments by Roberto seem to have sufficient substance to make amplify "shipment" "consignment" and their interrelationship. This rests predominantly on "context." In this case the contexts are "consignor/consignee" when relating to goods/consignment, and "supplier/buyer, or ?) when relating to "shipment". I think the graphics are useful enough to include in the hubdoc as well though they need a bit of explanation. Perhaps we can discuss this at the next TC call? Andy
Original Message----- From: ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org ] On Behalf Of Jon Bosak Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:33 AM To: roberto@javest.com Cc: Tim McGrath; ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [ubl-tsc] Question about consignments and shipments Very helpful, Roberto. Thanks! Jon Roberto Cisternino wrote: > The "Shipment", when facilitated by an international freight > forwarder, represents the whole end-to-end organization of the goods > transport on behalf of the Shipper. > > A Shipment possibly involves one or more Carriers and related > transport contracts (one or more consignments in a single shipment). > > The consolidated shipment is a transport optimization organized by the > freight forwarder to ensure a given container is fully loaded (FCL - > Full Container Load). This is to save money but also to provide a more > competitive tariff. > > In a single container the freight forwarder can consolidate several > consignments of different Shippers (AKA: grouppage) until the > container is full. > > So we have these cases: > a) 1 Shipment - 1 Consignment > b) 1 Shipment - many Consignments (many carriers) of the same Shipper > c) 1 Shipment - many Consignment of different Shippers > (grouppage/consolidated shipment) > d) Splitted shipment (huge shipment) even using different vessels (so > pratically different consignments) > > Hope this helps, > > Ciao > Roberto > >> The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of >> this in the hubdoc? >> >> I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. >> Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown >> in slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment >> pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? >> >> Jon >> >> Tim McGrath wrote: >>> here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options >>> for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these >>> definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to >>> be careful changing them. >>> >>> >>> On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: >>>> Hello TSC, >>>> >>>> I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common >>>> library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. Details). >>>> I >>>> note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments >>>> (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", >>>> row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can >>>> contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. >>>> Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of >>>> consolidation, but I can't figure out what. >>>> >>>> Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments >>>> collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with consolidation? >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2193 / Virus Database: 2437/5108 - Release Date: 07/03/12

>..."supplier/buyer, or ?) when relating to "shipment" Do you mean the shipper (exporter which is usually the seller) ? Roberto > Jon, > I am just now catching up on the email exchanges after recovering from > power > outages and oppressive heat (still). > > I am definitely in support of your suggestion about capturing this > discussion about shipments and consignments in the hub document. I believe > a > separate subsection somewhere near the front of the document may be best > since both procurement and transport use the term "shipment" if not also > "consignment". > Tim's charts along with the comments by Roberto seem to have sufficient > substance to make amplify "shipment" "consignment" and their > interrelationship. This rests predominantly on "context." In this case the > contexts are "consignor/consignee" when relating to goods/consignment, and > "supplier/buyer, or ?) when relating to "shipment". > I think the graphics are useful enough to include in the hubdoc as well > though they need a bit of explanation. > > Perhaps we can discuss this at the next TC call? > Andy > > > >
Original Message----- > From: ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org ] > On > Behalf Of Jon Bosak > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:33 AM > To: roberto@javest.com > Cc: Tim McGrath; ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [ubl-tsc] Question about consignments and shipments > > Very helpful, Roberto. Thanks! > > Jon > > Roberto Cisternino wrote: >> The "Shipment", when facilitated by an international freight >> forwarder, represents the whole end-to-end organization of the goods >> transport on behalf of the Shipper. >> >> A Shipment possibly involves one or more Carriers and related >> transport contracts (one or more consignments in a single shipment). >> >> The consolidated shipment is a transport optimization organized by the >> freight forwarder to ensure a given container is fully loaded (FCL - >> Full Container Load). This is to save money but also to provide a more >> competitive tariff. >> >> In a single container the freight forwarder can consolidate several >> consignments of different Shippers (AKA: grouppage) until the >> container is full. >> >> So we have these cases: >> a) 1 Shipment - 1 Consignment >> b) 1 Shipment - many Consignments (many carriers) of the same Shipper >> c) 1 Shipment - many Consignment of different Shippers >> (grouppage/consolidated shipment) >> d) Splitted shipment (huge shipment) even using different vessels (so >> pratically different consignments) >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Ciao >> Roberto >> >>> The slides help a lot -- thanks. Perhaps we can put some version of >>> this in the hubdoc? >>> >>> I'm still wondering about "consolidated shipment" (Consignment. >>> Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment). Is this one of the shipments shown >>> in slide 5, or is this something else that combines a set of shipment >>> pieces into a synthetic shipment for some legal purpose? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> Tim McGrath wrote: >>>> here is my slides describing the 'split' and 'consolidation' options >>>> for shipments and consignments. we struggled a long time on these >>>> definitions and actually got them approved by experts so we have to >>>> be careful changing them. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/07/12 5:03 AM, Jon Bosak wrote: >>>>> Hello TSC, >>>>> >>>>> I'm in the process of reviewing the definitions in the common >>>>> library and am now considering the ABIE "Consignment" (Consignment. > Details). >>>>> I >>>>> note that a consignment (row 284) can contain multiple shipments >>>>> (under the name "Consignment. Consolidated_ Shipment. Shipment", >>>>> row 344), but I also note that every shipment (row 1672) can >>>>> contain multiple consignments (under the name Shipment. >>>>> Consignment, row 1694). This has something to do with the notion of >>>>> consolidation, but I can't figure out what. >>>>> >>>>> Are consignments collections of shipments, or are shipments >>>>> collections of consignments? And what does this have to do with > consolidation? >>>>> >>>>> Jon >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org >>> >>> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2193 / Virus Database: 2437/5108 - Release Date: 07/03/12 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > -- * JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino * * Document Engineering Services Ltd. - Alliance Member * UBL Italian Localization SubCommittee (ITLSC), co-Chair * UBL Online Community editorial board member (ubl.xml.org) * Italian UBL Advisor Roberto Cisternino mobile: +39 328 2148123 skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc [UBL Technical Committee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl [UBL Online Community] http://ubl.xml.org [UBL International Conferences] http://www.ublconference.org [UBL Italian Localization Subcommittee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl-itlsc [Iniziativa divulgativa UBL Italia] http://www.ubl-italia.org