OASIS Code List Representation TC

 View Only
  • 1.  Updated genericode specification

    Posted 08-27-2007 23:34
    I've updated the genericode specification after the 1st public review.  In  
    particular, I've added a conformance sub-section (end of section 4) and a  
    description of the two namespaces in the Schema (end of section 3).   
    Please have a look at these and see what you think.  All of the first  
    public review comments should now be addressed by the updated Schema and  
    specification.
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25095/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25096/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    Note that the appendix examples and the table of contents have not yet  
    been updated, and need to be.
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    -- 
    Anthony B. Coates
    Senior Partner
    Miley Watts LLP
    Experts In Data
    UK: +44 (20) 8816 7700, US: +1 (239) 344 7700
    Mobile/Cell: +44 (79) 0543 9026
    Data standards participant: genericode, ISO 20022 (ISO 15022 XML),  
    UN/CEFACT, MDDL, FpML, UBL.
    http://www.mileywatts.com/
    


  • 2.  Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 08-28-2007 23:15
    I've now updated the example (specifically, the FpML example) and the  
    table of contents:
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25124/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25125/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    These are now ready for internal review by the TC, and then (depending on  
    that review) for distributions for the 2nd public review.
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:33:46 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts)  
    


  • 3.  Re: [codelist] Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 09-03-2007 17:49
    Regarding the conformance clause 4.4:
    
    (1) - is it appropriate to include "must not be used as a de facto 
    location URI" statements?  Is that not out-of-band of the specification?
    
    (2) - "xml:base does not apply to canonical URIs" seems related to 
    use, not specification
    
    (3) - if we are to include "An application must ..." statements (I'm 
    not sure we should) then the opening paragraph of 4.4 needs to be 
    augmented with something like:  "including the following auxiliary 
    rules imposed on a genericode instance or an application processing a 
    genericode instance:"
    
    The reason I'm hesitant about "An application must..." statement is 
    that we aren't defining a specification like XSLT with a processor, 
    we are defining a data format.  Is it up to the specification to 
    impose such constraints on how the data is used?
    
    (4) - perhaps change "The external reference must not be prefixed 
    with a '#' symbol." to "The external reference must not begin with a 
    '#' character." since the reference is not separate from the prefix 
    (and I think "character" is more appropriate than "symbol")
    
    Well done, Tony!  That certainly seems exhaustive.  But I think we 
    need to discuss the inclusion of application behaviours.
    
    For example, if the file at a LocationURI changes arbitrarily, that 
    changes the conformance of a given genericode instance according to 
    this conformance clause.  I think it is enough *for conformance* that 
    the LocationURI be correctly formed regardless of what it points 
    to.  What if, say, the user is acting locally without an Internet 
    connection ... the content at the external location is unknown ... 
    does this mean the conformance of his instance is unknown?
    
    So does it make sense to only include in the conformance section 
    clauses that apply to the instance as a standalone artefact, and move 
    other issues to a "guidelines for applications" section and make it 
    non-normative?
    
    . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
    At 2007-08-29 00:14 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    
    >I've now updated the example (specifically, the FpML example) and the
    >table of contents:
    >
    >http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25124/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    >http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25125/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    >
    >These are now ready for internal review by the TC, and then (depending on
    >that review) for distributions for the 2nd public review.
    >
    >Cheers, Tony.
    
    
    --
    Upcoming public training: XSLT/XSL-FO Sep 10, UBL/code lists Oct 1
    World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    Male Cancer Awareness Jul'07  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    
    


  • 4.  Re: [codelist] Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 09-03-2007 21:09
    Comments below.
    
    On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:48:12 +0100, G. Ken Holman  
    


  • 5.  Re: [codelist] Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 09-04-2007 16:44
    At 2007-09-03 22:09 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    >On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:48:12 +0100, G. Ken Holman
    >


  • 6.  Re: [codelist] Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 09-05-2007 14:47
    We are simply chasing our tails here.  If we are going to get to some  
    resolution of this thread in finite time, we need to stop arguing at  
    cross-purposes.
    
    In particular, we simply aren't agreeing from the outset as to what  
    *conformance* is, and what the scope of it should be for the genericode  
    specification.  Although this is only marginally less vague a topic than  
    many of the great philosophical questions of history (like what "love"  
    is), we still need to get to a sufficient agreement on what the question  
    is or we will never agree what the answer is.
    
    It's become clear to me that Ken and I have different views on how much of  
    the "code list lifecycle" should be covered by the conformance.  Ken's  
    view seems to be (and forgive me for paraphrasing) that the important part  
    of the lifecycle is the authoring of genericode documents, and that if  
    those are valid and self-consistent, then anything that happens after that  
    is somebody else's problem.
    
    By contrast, my view is that we need to be concerned not only with whether  
    genericode documents are valid, but also whether applications process the  
    genericode-specific parts of the information content in a consistent and  
    repeatable way.  Users are free to put all kinds of information in  
    genericode documents, and interpret their own information as they like.   
    However, the same code list (which may span multiple genericode files due  
    to references) should not, in my opinion, appear to contain different  
    information depending on which application opens it (excepting differences  
    due to applications having different local copies of the same genericode  
    file).  For that reason, I believe that interpretation of the "structural  
    semantics" (for want of a better expression) of genericode is an important  
    and valid part of the scope of conformance, because it impacts directly on  
    users perceptions and measurements of whether they get consistent  
    behaviour from consuming applications or not.
    
    I also disagree with Ken's brief explanation of what conformance is (i.e.  
    a short check list of the major points from the spec), and I don't think  
    that is how OASIS would define it.  I know the check list approach was  
    mentioned as one possible interpretation, but I suspect that the inclusion  
    of conformance as a separate issue for OASIS specs has been driven by Web  
    services and the like, where it has not been uncommon see different  
    implementations all adhering to the written specification, but via  
    differing interpretations that are not interoperable.  This kind of  
    problem is no less important for genericode users.
    
    Anyway, how about we start with discussing how much of the "code list  
    lifecycle" we can and should cover with conformance clauses?  Once we  
    agree on that, I think some of the answers will come more easily.  By the  
    way, part of the answer could be that we end up splitting the conformance  
    clauses into "authoring" and "processing" sections, so that nobody feels  
    duty bound to try and comply with conformance clauses that aren't relevant  
    to the part of the lifecycle that they are responsible for.
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:41:21 +0100, G. Ken Holman  
    


  • 7.  RE: [codelist] Re: Updated genericode specification

    Posted 09-05-2007 15:16
    From the perspective of our work on information exchange,
    interoperability will require conformance testing that a document which
    purports to comply with the specification is valid, and that an
    application which purports to accept a genericode document as input
    successfully interprets that document as intended - both reading the
    syntax and interpreting the semantics.  You may also have a third case,
    where you need to check that an application which purports to generate
    genericode documents does in fact produce compliant syntax and
    semantics.
    
    
    Howard Mason
    Corporate IT Office
    Tel: +44 1252 383129
    Mob: +44 780 171 3340
    Eml: howard.mason@baesystems.com