OASIS Code List Representation TC

 View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

Dissenting argument on namespace URI

Ray Denenberg

Ray Denenberg03-08-2007 21:09

  • 1.  Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 03-08-2007 21:09
      |   view attached

    Attachment(s)

    doc
    namespace uri.doc   49 KB 1 version


  • 2.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 03-09-2007 00:56
    
    I support Ray's position.
    
    Cheers...  Renato Iannella
    NICTA
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This email and any attachments may be confidential. They may contain legally
    privileged information or copyright material. You should not read, copy,
    use or disclose them without authorisation. If you are not an intended
    recipient, please contact us at once by return email and then delete both
    messages. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus,
    data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised
    amendment. This notice should not be removed.
    


  • 3.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 03-09-2007 17:42
    So you are against the use of RDDL?  Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 00:55:59 -0000, Renato Iannella 


  • 4.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 03-13-2007 06:25
    On 10 Mar 2007, at 03:45, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    
    > So you are against the use of RDDL?
    
    No, didn't say that.
    
    But *what* are we really trying to identify, locate, or name?
    
    Cheers...  Renato Iannella
    NICTA
    
    
    


  • 5.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 15:16
    Many thanks, Ray, for submitting this document.  I had some thoughts 
    to share at the meeting that was cancelled, and will bring them up 
    tomorrow, but thought I'd share them first on the list to spark more 
    threaded discussion.
    
    At 2007-03-08 11:09 -0500, Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress wrote:
    >I appologize if I'm not following procedures for properly submitting a
    >document, but I haven't figured it out yet.  Meanwhile I've attached a word
    >document (I'm not even sure this listserv takes attachments but I've copied
    >Ken too so he'll get it).  If someone can point me to the procedures for
    >submitting this properly I'll do it.
    >
    >Anyway, at the last call I agreed to write up my argument about XML
    >namespace URIs; it's attached.
    
    Having taught XML namespaces as part of my hands-on training classes, 
    I'm well aware of the distinctions made between identifiers and 
    locators, and you've done an excellent job in overviewing the issue, 
    your observations, and the historical debate.
    
    It is unfortunate that being condescending is perceived when hearing 
    the argument that "well, the URI string syntax allows "http" it to be 
    used without needing to dereference it", when in fact I understand 
    this to be true.
    
    I'm unfamiliar with the info: URI scheme so I appreciate the 
    information you've included.
    
    I am familiar with the improper use of the "urn:" namespace, 
    particularly in the US government where I've seen the incorrectly use 
    of "urn:us:..." when "us" is not a registered namespace identifier 
    (as "oasis" is).  Personally I'm a big user of the private 
    unregistered use of urn: as in my use of "urn:x-CraneSoftwrights" as 
    abstract pointers within documents such as RSS references (but not 
    outside of documents).
    
    Reading your documented remarks on "Confusion and its repercussions" 
    I am not swayed.  XML is a labeled hierarchy of information items, 
    and namespaces are used to create rich labels with global 
    uniqueness.  Nothing more.  The fact that people do not understand 
    this does not, in my opinion, invalidate its use.  On the contrary, 
    the more that it is used properly the more others may learn to use it 
    properly.  Avoiding its correct use does not propagate its correct use.
    
    I feel your paper doesn't weigh in to the *benefits* of using an URI 
    that (1) takes advantage of existing ownership of domain names, and 
    (2) *happens* to be a URL that can be used for documentation and RDDL[1].
    
    Regarding (1), if I wanted to use info: for a namespace then I have 
    to go to the effort of registering it, however today, without effort, 
    I can manage my own namespace URI strings if I choose the http syntax 
    and use the domain name I already own and is already globally unique.
    
    Regarding (2), there is no obligation to have a URL for the URI, but 
    having an XHTML document at the URL for the URI opens up the 
    opportunity for additional features and benefits to help users 
    (especially users who don't understand that the URI is not a pointer 
    to a schema or any constraint definition) do resource discovery.  I 
    see using XHTML/RDDL as a way to help users understand the role of a 
    URI that just happens to be a URL.
    
    But I acknowledge your user experiences are different than my user experiences.
    
    I'm really worried about going the "info:" route (is OASIS planning 
    to get an info registration? you mention info:xmlns/oasis which would 
    require two registrations and maintenance of the level below xmlns 
    ... who would maintain that?), and I'm slightly worried about going 
    the "urn:oasis:" route because of lost opportunity, and I'm very 
    interested in trying the "http:" route with XHTML and RDDL as a 
    testing ground to measure the success of using the URL as a URI.
    
    Though of course "testing" something that is being made permanent is 
    a really tough test ... once we make up our mind here for genericode 
    1.0 then I see us setting a precedent for genericode through its 
    lifetime ... but we really won't be able to measure its success until 
    we try it.
    
    So, personally, I was seeing this as an opportunity to exercise the 
    specifications for which they were designed ... not avoiding a 
    non-technical issue (yes I know you've identified it as a usability 
    issue, but it isn't a technical issue in my opinion).  We can 
    continue using the standards in the ways in which they are specified 
    to work which can help the community with examples of the proper ways 
    of using the specifications.
    
    Given that each committee can have its own repository, I'm suggesting 
    we use something like:
    
       http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    
    as the namespace URI with an index.html at that directory in XHTML 
    with RDDL statements, copies of the schema files in that directory as 
    a central resource that anyone can point to, and any other 
    information in support of the base specification.
    
    I understand we have polar opposite opinions on this with strong 
    feelings behind both and, as a committee, we have to find a way to 
    move forward.  The two suggestions on the table so far to consider are:
    
       info:xmlns/oasis/codelist
    
    and
    
       http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    
    Would other members of the committee please give your opinions and 
    other suggestions for consideration?
    
    I hope this is perceived as a healthy debate, Ray, and not just as a 
    contrary opinion.  Thank you very much for bringing forward your 
    ideas in such a detailed fashion.
    
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
    [1] http://www.openhealth.org/RDDL/20040118/rddl-20040118.html
    
    --
    World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    
    


  • 6.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 15:48
    It has been brought to my attention that an OASIS policy that states 
    "HTTP scheme namespace URIs are to be preferred" is already in place:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV07.html#NamespaceDesign
    
    I do note that this policy does not allow other files in the 
    directory, so we cannot put the schema files in that directory as I 
    had hoped.  We can perhaps create another directory with these files, say:
    
       http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/
    
    I was unaware of these policy issues before writing my comments to 
    Ray ... would members please review the policy statements before 
    tomorrow's meeting?
    
    Thanks!
    
    . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
    At 2007-04-16 11:14 -0400, I wrote:
    >Given that each committee can have its own repository, I'm 
    >suggesting we use something like:
    >
    >   http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    >
    >as the namespace URI with an index.html at that directory in XHTML 
    >with RDDL statements, copies of the schema files in that directory 
    >as a central resource that anyone can point to, and any other 
    >information in support of the base specification.
    >
    >I understand we have polar opposite opinions on this with strong 
    >feelings behind both and, as a committee, we have to find a way to 
    >move forward.  The two suggestions on the table so far to consider are:
    >
    >   info:xmlns/oasis/codelist
    >
    >and
    >
    >   http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    >
    >Would other members of the committee please give your opinions and 
    >other suggestions for consideration?
    
    
    --
    World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    
    


  • 7.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 20:15
    By my reading of the OASIS guidelines (which I didn't find completely  
    clear), the recommended namespace URI for genericode would be
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    
    However, for practical reasons, I think we need to add the version number,  
    so that the namespace URI becomes
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/
    
    Note that this URI does not contain "/ns/" as Ken's suggested URI does.  I  
    don't see any place "/ns/" in the recommended format.  However, I think  
    the RDDL document for genericode should be located at
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    
    and that all URIs of the form
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/M.N/
    
    should be redirected to a RDDL document at
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    
    which contains information about all versions of genericode.  However,  
    that doesn't give us anywhere in the URL space to locate the Schemas.
    
    As an aside, I had a look at the documents in  
    "http://docs.oasis-open.org/", and couldn't find any TCs that appear to be  
    using RDDL, so I couldn't get any inspiration from what other TCs are  
    doing.
    
    So, in spite of what is suggested in the OASIS docs, I would actually  
    prefer myself to follow Ken's suggestion of
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    
    for the genericode 1.0 namespace URI, with this being redirected to a RDDL  
    document at
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/
    
    We could then have the Schemas at (I would suggest)
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/
    
    so that there is a consistent structure to the URLs.
    
    Comments?  Do we need to get OASIS to recommend something to us?
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:42:28 +0100, G. Ken Holman  
    


  • 8.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 20:37
    Re:
    
    > As an aside, I had a look at the documents in
    > "http://docs.oasis-open.org/", and couldn't find any TCs that appear to be
    > using RDDL, so I couldn't get any inspiration from what other TCs are
    > doing.
    
    Good catch, Tony.  Thanks. We have an action item identifying the need for
    an OASIS registry of NS URIs, but it's not yet built.
    
    Meantime, some NS URIs that resolve to RDDLs (and indeed, this is
    what we recommend):
    
    RDDLs:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsmc/200702
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrmp/200608
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-sx/ws-securitypolicy/200512
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsat/2006/06
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsba/2006/06
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wscoor/2006/03
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wscoor/2006/06
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
    
    Non-OASIS:
    
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/04/sc
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/08/eventing
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/09/mex
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/09/policy
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/09/transfer
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2005/02/rm
    http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2005/04/ssi
    http://www.opengis.net/gml
    http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
    http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing
    http://www.w3.org/2005/08/ws-polling
    http://www.w3.org/2005/SMIL21/
    
    
    -rcc
    
    =====================================================================================
    
    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    
    > By my reading of the OASIS guidelines (which I didn't find completely
    > clear), the recommended namespace URI for genericode would be
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    >
    > However, for practical reasons, I think we need to add the version number,
    > so that the namespace URI becomes
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/
    >
    > Note that this URI does not contain "/ns/" as Ken's suggested URI does.  I
    > don't see any place "/ns/" in the recommended format.  However, I think
    > the RDDL document for genericode should be located at
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    >
    > and that all URIs of the form
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/M.N/
    >
    > should be redirected to a RDDL document at
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/
    >
    > which contains information about all versions of genericode.  However,
    > that doesn't give us anywhere in the URL space to locate the Schemas.
    >
    > As an aside, I had a look at the documents in
    > "http://docs.oasis-open.org/", and couldn't find any TCs that appear to be
    > using RDDL, so I couldn't get any inspiration from what other TCs are
    > doing.
    >
    > So, in spite of what is suggested in the OASIS docs, I would actually
    > prefer myself to follow Ken's suggestion of
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    >
    > for the genericode 1.0 namespace URI, with this being redirected to a RDDL
    > document at
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/
    >
    > We could then have the Schemas at (I would suggest)
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/
    >
    > so that there is a consistent structure to the URLs.
    >
    > Comments?  Do we need to get OASIS to recommend something to us?
    >
    > Cheers, Tony.
    >
    > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:42:28 +0100, G. Ken Holman
    > 


  • 9.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 08:25
    Thanks, Robin.  Maybe you could help me in understanding the OASIS  
    namespace URI guidelines
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV07.html#NamespaceDesign
    
    a little better.  In particular the section
    
    ----
    TCs should avoid creating collision/confusion and semantic overloading at  
    the point of a XML Namespace URI which could be mistaken for a regular  
    directory URI, or vice versa; thus, for any Type 1 or Type 3 HTTP scheme  
    namespace URI terminating in foo or foo/ (e.g.,  
    http://http://docs.oasis-open.org/tcName/path/foo), no URIs should be  
    created for resources matching "*" in  
    http://http://docs.oasis-open.org/tcName/path/foo/*. IOW: we don't put any  
    content in directory foo/.
    ----
    
    I understood this to mean that if the genericode 1.0 namespace URI is
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/
    
    that we can't have any documents whose access URI is of the form
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/*
    
    However, this is not consistent with the first two of the RDDL examples  
    that you posted
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsmc/200702
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702
    
    where there are documents in the directory of the namespace URI.  Am I  
    missing something obvious?  Thanks,
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:36:16 +0100, Robin Cover 


  • 10.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 11:39
    Sorry, you already answered my questions in your other post!  Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:24:58 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts)  
    


  • 11.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 14:54
    Short answer: some legacy NS URIs do violate the rule; these cases were
    grandfathered.
    
    ----------- Longer answer:
    
    > missing something obvious?
    
    No, you caught the obvious. In the 2005-2006 timeframe, several
    activities in TAB and Staff (with two OASIS member reviews) tried
    to address issues relating to namespace design.  At the time,
    no direct support was available for adjustment of server config files
    (e.g., for use of mod_rewrite directives), so we only had a crude
    form of "redirect" to work with as we tried to manage the TCs'
    namespace URIs and resources.
    
    Over time, it became clearer to TAB members, Staff, and other
    experts that overloading at the point of a directory/NS URI
    would create problems -- given our commitment to transparently
    display all directory contents.  In the interim, several TCs
    had created content in directory URIs which collided with
    namespace URIs, so we had to use clumsy, non-predictable
    workarounds to provide views of the directory contents (index).
    
    The result of this experience and many design discussions was to
    create the rule you now see at "TCs should avoid creating
    collision/confusion and semantic overloading..."
    
    We grandfathered the instances on the file system of docs.oasis-open.org,
    and will probably allow TCs that started out with the (now) deprecated
    pattern to play out the remainder of their TC work in a consistent
    way.  For new design work in TCs that are minting NS URIs, we intend
    to require adherence to the rule "TCs should avoid creating
    collision/confusion..."
    
    Robin
    
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    
    > Thanks, Robin.  Maybe you could help me in understanding the OASIS
    > namespace URI guidelines
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV07.html#NamespaceDesign
    >
    > a little better.  In particular the section
    >
    > ----
    > TCs should avoid creating collision/confusion and semantic overloading at
    > the point of a XML Namespace URI which could be mistaken for a regular
    > directory URI, or vice versa; thus, for any Type 1 or Type 3 HTTP scheme
    > namespace URI terminating in foo or foo/ (e.g.,
    > http://http://docs.oasis-open.org/tcName/path/foo), no URIs should be
    > created for resources matching "*" in
    > http://http://docs.oasis-open.org/tcName/path/foo/*. IOW: we don't put any
    > content in directory foo/.
    > ----
    >
    > I understood this to mean that if the genericode 1.0 namespace URI is
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/
    >
    > that we can't have any documents whose access URI is of the form
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/1.0/*
    >
    > However, this is not consistent with the first two of the RDDL examples
    > that you posted
    >
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsmc/200702
    > http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702
    >
    > where there are documents in the directory of the namespace URI.  Am I
    > missing something obvious?  Thanks,
    >
    > Cheers, Tony.
    >
    > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:36:16 +0100, Robin Cover 


  • 12.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 21:20
    Robin, can you please comment on Tony's summary that was after the 
    line you quoted in your last response?
    
    At 2007-04-16 21:14 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    >So, in spite of what is suggested in the OASIS docs, I would actually
    >prefer myself to follow Ken's suggestion of
    >
    >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    >
    >for the genericode 1.0 namespace URI, with this being redirected to a RDDL
    >document at
    >
    >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/
    >
    >We could then have the Schemas at (I would suggest)
    >
    >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/
    >
    >so that there is a consistent structure to the URLs.
    >
    >Comments?  Do we need to get OASIS to recommend something to us?
    
    I think Tony has suggested an appropriate directory structure to 
    distinguish the NS directories (that don't have "other" files in 
    them) with explicit schema directories where we can rely on finding 
    the normative documents.
    
    With your blessing, Robin, I'd like to move forward tomorrow in our 
    committee teleconference with a recommendation that we go ahead with 
    Tony's suggestions.
    
    Thanks for your guidance!
    
    . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
    p.s. while I don't (yet) use RDDL, my use of an "/ns/" directory is 
    what I've done for a long time on Crane's web site:
    
       http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/ns/
    
    
    --
    World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    
    


  • 13.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 02:53
    On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, G. Ken Holman wrote:
    
    > Robin, can you please comment on Tony's summary that was after the
    > line you quoted in your last response?
    
    Looks OK.  Here are some details:
    
    ---------------------------------
    Proposed by Tony and Ken:
    ---------------------------------
    
    Ken asks about NS URI design [1] using a path element
    "/ns/" and an initial version element "/1.0"/
    
    TC shortName = codelist
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=codelist
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/codelist/
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/ NS URI
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/   RDDLs
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/ Schemas
    
    ----------------------------------
    Comment from Robin:
    ----------------------------------
    
    It's a good idea to think about the URI design end-to-end
    (versions of specs, versions of schemas, versioned NS URIs,
    collection of RDDL documents), so I'm happy to see the
    conversation on the TC list about these design issues.
    
    The proposed NS URI (string, URI reference) is OK: it conforms to the
    Type 1 "slash" pattern [2] and uses the explicit "/ns/" path component,
    which signals that the URI is about namespaces [3].
    
    If you start with
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    
    then you can version the NS URI as needed (for example
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.1/  OR
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/2.0/  OR whatever
    
    Please note the rule "TCs should avoid creating collision/confusion
    and semantic overloading at the point of a XML Namespace URI..."
    discussed here:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingV07.html#NamespaceDesign
    
    Thus, while the exact location of the RDDL document(s) is
    not critical, we don't want any content at "*" in
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.1/* OR
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/2.0/*
    
    Our practice is to deliver the RDDL via a URI rewrite
    so that the namespace document (immediately) documents the
    namespace.  Example (dereference it in a browser to see the
    server behavior):
    
    NS URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-caf/2005/10/wsctx
    
    As to use of a directory transparently matching this URI
    
    "http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/"
    
    that seems OK as well; you can create the RDDL files for
    example using the substring 'rddl' or 'namespace' and
    some versioning scheme (examples:)
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/rddl-20070416.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/rddl-20070624.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/rddl-20071129.html
    
    or:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/namespace-20070416.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/namespace-20070624.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/namespace-20071129.html
    
    or whatever.
    
    I don't know much about your plans for publishing schemas, but
    the proposed root (directory) seems to make sense for "1.0":
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/
    
    Feel free to ask for advice as you feel your way along -- we think
    the TC is in the best position to design the URI scheme, but we'll
    try to spot any problematic suggestions.  The most important
    consideration is that the scheme make provision initially for
    distinct URIs for all the versioned instances of schemas,
    prose specs, RDDLs, namespace URIs, etc.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Robin
    
    --Refs:
    
    [1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/codelist/200704/msg00024.html
    
    [2]
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCommentaryV07.html#slashTypeURI
    
    Type 1: Slash Namespace HTTP scheme URI
    
    [3] W3C documentation
        http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri
        e.g., 'http://www.w3.org/ns/ssss'
        recent example: "http://www.w3.org/ns/ws-policy"
    
    ----------------------
    
    
    
    >
    > At 2007-04-16 21:14 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    > >So, in spite of what is suggested in the OASIS docs, I would actually
    > >prefer myself to follow Ken's suggestion of
    > >
    > >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    > >
    > >for the genericode 1.0 namespace URI, with this being redirected to a RDDL
    > >document at
    > >
    > >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/
    > >
    > >We could then have the Schemas at (I would suggest)
    > >
    > >http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schemas/genericode/1.0/
    > >
    > >so that there is a consistent structure to the URLs.
    > >
    > >Comments?  Do we need to get OASIS to recommend something to us?
    >
    > I think Tony has suggested an appropriate directory structure to
    > distinguish the NS directories (that don't have "other" files in
    > them) with explicit schema directories where we can rely on finding
    > the normative documents.
    >
    > With your blessing, Robin, I'd like to move forward tomorrow in our
    > committee teleconference with a recommendation that we go ahead with
    > Tony's suggestions.
    >
    > Thanks for your guidance!
    >
    > . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    >
    > p.s. while I don't (yet) use RDDL, my use of an "/ns/" directory is
    > what I've done for a long time on Crane's web site:
    >
    >    http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/ns/
    >
    >
    > --
    > World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    > RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    > G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    > Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    > Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    > Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    > Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    >
    >
    


  • 14.  Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 16:51
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:52:49 +0100, Robin Cover 


  • 15.  Re: Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 17:00
    Related to this - when the specification and Schema go out for public  
    review:
    
    * should be Schema be 1.0, or something else to indicate its draft nature  
    (the namespace URL doesn't change with the status);
    * should the specification be "draft" and "1.0", or some other combination?
    
    Thanks, Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:50:16 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts)  
    


  • 16.  Re: [codelist] Re: Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 18:09
    At 2007-04-17 17:59 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    >Related to this - when the specification and Schema go out for public
    >review:
    >
    >* should be Schema be 1.0, or something else to indicate its draft nature
    >(the namespace URL doesn't change with the status);
    >* should the specification be "draft" and "1.0", or some other combination?
    
    Looking at the UBL 2 experience, each of CS and OS had the same 
    finalized namespace URI strings (check the namespaces in these schemas):
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/cs-UBL-2.0/xsd/maindoc/UBL-OrderCancellation-2.0.xsd
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/os-UBL-2.0/xsd/maindoc/UBL-OrderCancellation-2.0.xsd
    
    I understand the final standardized string should be reflected in a 
    Committee Specification.  Implementations of Committee Specifications 
    are not to have to change in order to support the standard 
    version.  There can be no technical changes, including namespaces.
    
    The Public Review Drafts (PRD) of UBL did, however, use the word 
    "draft", but I'm not sure that brought anything useful to the table 
    (other than confusion in some programs).  That an XML vocabulary 
    happens to validate an XML instance doesn't make that vocabulary the 
    standard for that instance ... I would think it could easily have a 
    draft status without needing a change in the string to "protect" it from abuse.
    
    Reviewing the process:
    
       http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php
    
    Section 3.3 states that a public review draft can be approved as a 
    specification.  So I think the public review draft should have the 
    finalized namespace URI strings so as to avoid having to make any 
    changes in the committee specification.  Therefore I think the 
    committee draft should have the finalized namespace URI strings.  If 
    the public review mandates we have to change that, that is handled as 
    part of the public review disposition.
    
    I know I had hassles between PRD and CS in the UBL project by not 
    remembering to change those strings.
    
    . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
    
    --
    World-wide corporate, govt. & user group XML, XSL and UBL training
    RSS feeds:     publicly-available developer resources and training
    G. Ken Holman                 mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com
    Crane Softwrights Ltd.          http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/
    Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0    +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995)
    Male Cancer Awareness Aug'05  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/bc
    Legal business disclaimers:  http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal
    
    


  • 17.  Re: Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 17:15
    By the way, the OASIS document templates has places for URIs for
    
    * this version;
    * previous version;
    * latest version;
    * latest approved version.
    
    The last two suggest some kind of canonical URL mechanism.  I'm thinking  
    the public review version of the spec won't have a previous version nor a  
    latest approved version, but we need to have "latest version" URLs, and  
    those need to be different from the "latest approved version" URLs.
    
    This all suggests to me the following URL layout:
    
    Versioned namespace:         
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/1.0/
    Canonical namespace & RDDL:  
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/ns/genericode/
    Draft 1.0 Schemas:           
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schema/draft/genericode/1.0
    Latest draft Schemas:        
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schema/draft/genericode/latest/
    Approved 1.0 Schemas:        
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schema/approved/genericode/1.0
    Latest draft Schemas:        
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/schema/approved/genericode/latest/
    Draft 1.0 specs:             
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/documentation/draft/genericode/1.0
    Latest draft specs:          
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/documentation/draft/genericode/latest/
    Approved 1.0 specs:          
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/documentation/approved/genericode/1.0
    Latest draft specs:          
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/documentation/approved/genericode/latest/
    
    where files in a "latest" URL folder would not have version numbers in  
    their file names.
    
    What do people think?  Thanks,
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:50:16 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts)  
    


  • 18.  Re: [codelist] Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 18:09
    Thanks for bringing these questions to the fore, Tony ... it has made 
    me realize that we have some decisions to make before finishing up 
    the documentation.
    
    At 2007-04-17 17:50 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) wrote:
    >On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:52:49 +0100, Robin Cover 


  • 19.  Re: [codelist] Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-17-2007 20:01
    Thanks Ken, that's good.  However, how should we provided URLs for  
    "latest" and "latest accepted" versions?  Thanks,
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:07:47 +0100, G. Ken Holman  
    


  • 20.  Re: [codelist] Code List TC URIs/URLs; was: Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-23-2007 09:27
    OK, I've been thinking some more about document URLs for different  
    versions of our documents.
    
    In the new OASIS template, there are 4 sets of document URLs.  I'm putting  
    in some suggestions, which I'll explain afterwards:
    
    ----
    Specification URIs:
    
    This Version:
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/cd-genericode-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/cd-genericode-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/cd-genericode-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    Previous Version:
    Not applicable
    
    Latest Version:
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    Latest Approved Version:
    Not applicable.
    ----
    
    The "This Version" URLs are as we have agreed, although I've added the  
    specific documents this time.  I'm presuming we won't list "Previous  
    Version" in this case, since there are no previous committe drafts, etc.
    
    For "Latest Version", I'm suggesting that we use a
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/
    
    area to provide canonical references to latest versions of documents  
    (committee drafts, committee standards, and/or OASIS standards).  For  
    example:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/latest/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    Similarly, I'm going to suggest (although not shown in this case) that we  
    use a
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/approved/
    
    area to provide canonical references to the latest committee standard or  
    OASIS standard versions of documents.  For example:
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/approved/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/approved/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/approved/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    However, if we were to go with this plan, then I think it would be more  
    consistent to change our committe draft 1.0 URLs to
    
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/cd-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.html
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/cd-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.odt
    http://docs.oasis-open.org/codelist/genericode/cd-1.0/doc/oasis-code-list-representation-genericode.pdf
    
    which differs from UBL usage, but would make things like URL re-writing of  
    canonical URIs more straightforwards.
    
    Does that sound plausible?  This is just a suggestion, alternate proposals  
    are very welcome.
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    
    On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:00:23 +0100, Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts)  
    


  • 21.  Re: [codelist] Dissenting argument on namespace URI

    Posted 04-16-2007 19:50
    I personally would prefer that the genericode namespace URI is a URL, not  
    a URN, so that we can have a RDDL document at the location specified by  
    the namespace URL.  However, I want to stress that this is only for the  
    genericode namespace itself, it should not (in my opinion) be construed as  
    a suggestion that code lists should have URLs as namespace URIs.  Some  
    will, but in designing genericode I specifically tried to separate the  
    concept of canonical URIs from location URIs, so that it was easy to have  
    URNs for canonical URIs, and URLs for location URIs, without any tension  
    forcing you to use the same kind of URI for both.
    
    Cheers, Tony.
    -- 
    Anthony B. Coates
    Senior Partner
    Miley Watts LLP
    Experts In Data
    +44 (79) 0543 9026
    Data standards participant: ISO 20022 (ISO 15022 XML), ISO 19312,  
    UN/CEFACT TMG, MDDL, FpML, UBL.
    http://www.mileywatts.com/