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Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox)TC

  • 1.  Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox)TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 15:10
    If the intent of the name "BusDox" is to quickly convey the idea
    that the TC has something to do with business documents, then I'm
    sorry to inform the convenors that it fails miserably.
    
    Very few (if any) native speakers of English will interpret
    "BusDox" as having anything to do with business or documents
    unless you have already told them that (which presumably is not
    the intent of a short name).  Until informed otherwise, they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to.
    
    There is no connection in general consciousness between "bus" and
    "business."  There is no connection in general consciousness
    between "dox" and "documents."  Neither term is ever used as
    a short form of the longer word.
    
    If you don't believe me, try the name out on some random group of
    nontechnical people drawn from the general (English-speaking)
    population.  Show them the term "BusDox" without further prompting
    and ask them what they think it might mean.
    
    The name you're looking for is "BizDocs."
    
    Jon
    


  • 2.  Re: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS BusinessDocument Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 15:19

    +1

    Regards, Dave Ings,
    Emerging Software Standards
    Email: ings@ca.ibm.com
    Yahoo Messenger: dave_ings

    Jon Bosak ---2010/10/27 11:14:21 AM---If the intent of the name "BusDox" is to quickly convey the idea that the TC has something to do wit

    From: Jon Bosak <bosak@pinax.com>
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Date: 2010/10/27 11:14 AM
    Subject: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC





    If the intent of the name "BusDox" is to quickly convey the idea
    that the TC has something to do with business documents, then I'm
    sorry to inform the convenors that it fails miserably.

    Very few (if any) native speakers of English will interpret
    "BusDox" as having anything to do with business or documents
    unless you have already told them that (which presumably is not
    the intent of a short name).  Until informed otherwise, they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to.

    There is no connection in general consciousness between "bus" and
    "business."  There is no connection in general consciousness
    between "dox" and "documents."  Neither term is ever used as
    a short form of the longer word.

    If you don't believe me, try the name out on some random group of
    nontechnical people drawn from the general (English-speaking)
    population.  Show them the term "BusDox" without further prompting
    and ask them what they think it might mean.

    The name you're looking for is "BizDocs."

    Jon

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  • 3.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 15:27
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 4.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 15:55
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).
     
    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  
     
    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 
    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"
    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  
     
    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:
    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".
     
    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.
     
     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 5.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS BusinessDocument Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 16:14
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    I’m more concerned with the intention of the TC and the name of any eventual specifications than the name of the TC itself. I think Ed asks the most relevant question here. This TC seems to be more about protocols to exchange documents rather than about the content of any documents. This needs clarification.

    Martin.

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 16:55
    To: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).

     

    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  

     

    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita-busdocs 

    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"

    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  

     

    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:

    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php

     

    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.

     

     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 6.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 18:38

    I’m a native European English speaker and BusDox just doesn’t do it for me. I agree with Jon that BizDocs is sharper and clearer, whatever any feeling there may be about “Biz” being an Americanism…

    BizDocs doesn’t seem to be a claimed as a service mark or trademark (registered or not), and certainly isn’t claimed as such by either e-bizdocs.com or bizdocs.com, the two potential contenders.

    In the case of E-BizDocs the fact that they have sought protection of a company slogan as a trademark but explicitly *not* the name “BizDocs”, would reinforce this PoV…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 08:55
    To: 'Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress'; oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).

     

    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  

     

    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita-busdocs 

    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"

    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  

     

    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:

    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php

     

    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.

     

     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 7.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 19:01
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     
    BizDocs:
    "BIZdocs® Document Management System"
     
    Registered Trademark Symbol:
    "The registered trademark symbol, designated by ® (the circled "R") and also known as a racol[citation needed] (derived from Registered & Authorised Company Logo), is a symbol used to provide notice that the preceding mark is a trademark or service mark that has been registered with a national trademark office."


    From: Peter F Brown (OASIS Individual Member) [mailto:peter-oasis@justbrown.net]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 20:38
    To: 'Pim van der Eijk'
    Cc: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    I’m a native European English speaker and BusDox just doesn’t do it for me. I agree with Jon that BizDocs is sharper and clearer, whatever any feeling there may be about “Biz” being an Americanism…

    BizDocs doesn’t seem to be a claimed as a service mark or trademark (registered or not), and certainly isn’t claimed as such by either e-bizdocs.com or bizdocs.com, the two potential contenders.

    In the case of E-BizDocs the fact that they have sought protection of a company slogan as a trademark but explicitly *not* the name “BizDocs”, would reinforce this PoV…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 08:55
    To: 'Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress'; oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).

     

    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  

     

    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita-busdocs 

    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"

    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  

     

    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:

    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php

     

    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.

     

     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 8.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 19:20

    Pim:

    Thanks for that, I didn’t know of them – and that is clearly registered indeed…

    Hmmm, back to square one, methinks

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 12:00
    To: peter-oasis@justbrown.net
    Cc: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

     

    BizDocs:

    "BIZdocs® Document Management System"

    http://www.ees.com.tr/?p=002&l=1

     

    Registered Trademark Symbol:

    "The registered trademark symbol, designated by ® (the circled "R") and also known as a racol[citation needed] (derived from Registered & Authorised Company Logo), is a symbol used to provide notice that the preceding mark is a trademark or service mark that has been registered with a national trademark office."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_trademark_symbol


    From: Peter F Brown (OASIS Individual Member) [mailto:peter-oasis@justbrown.net]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 20:38
    To: 'Pim van der Eijk'
    Cc: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    I’m a native European English speaker and BusDox just doesn’t do it for me. I agree with Jon that BizDocs is sharper and clearer, whatever any feeling there may be about “Biz” being an Americanism…

    BizDocs doesn’t seem to be a claimed as a service mark or trademark (registered or not), and certainly isn’t claimed as such by either e-bizdocs.com or bizdocs.com, the two potential contenders.

    In the case of E-BizDocs the fact that they have sought protection of a company slogan as a trademark but explicitly *not* the name “BizDocs”, would reinforce this PoV…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 08:55
    To: 'Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress'; oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).

     

    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  

     

    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita-busdocs 

    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"

    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  

     

    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:

    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php

     

    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.

     

     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 9.  RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 19:24
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Seems to me you could avoid all these issues and much confusion if you just called it BusinessDocs.   --Ray

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:00 PM
    To: peter-oasis@justbrown.net
    Cc: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

     

    BizDocs:

    "BIZdocs® Document Management System"

    http://www.ees.com.tr/?p=002&l=1

     

    Registered Trademark Symbol:

    "The registered trademark symbol, designated by ® (the circled "R") and also known as a racol[citation needed] (derived from Registered & Authorised Company Logo), is a symbol used to provide notice that the preceding mark is a trademark or service mark that has been registered with a national trademark office."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_trademark_symbol


    From: Peter F Brown (OASIS Individual Member) [mailto:peter-oasis@justbrown.net]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 20:38
    To: 'Pim van der Eijk'
    Cc: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    I’m a native European English speaker and BusDox just doesn’t do it for me. I agree with Jon that BizDocs is sharper and clearer, whatever any feeling there may be about “Biz” being an Americanism…

    BizDocs doesn’t seem to be a claimed as a service mark or trademark (registered or not), and certainly isn’t claimed as such by either e-bizdocs.com or bizdocs.com, the two potential contenders.

    In the case of E-BizDocs the fact that they have sought protection of a company slogan as a trademark but explicitly *not* the name “BizDocs”, would reinforce this PoV…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
    Sent: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010 08:55
    To: 'Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress'; oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Very funny.   (At least,  I'm assuming this is intended to be funny.  But I can't really tell, as I'm not a native speaker of English).

     

    You may have noted that some of the co-proposers of this charter are native speakers of English.   I will check again,  but as far as I know it was one of them that actually proposed this abbreviation.   I never questioned the abbreviation as I only got involved in the discussions when the abbreviation "BusDox" was already there.  

     

    FYI, there is also an OASIS DITA BusDocs SC. 

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=dita-busdocs 

    DITA BusDocs means "DITA Enterprise Business Documents SC"

    It looks like the vast majority of the members of this SC are native speakers of English.  

     

    A quick Internet search seems to show that BIZdocs is some trademark, so it would violate the following TC process rule:

    "The name of the TC, such name not to have been previously used for an OASIS TC and not to include any trademarks or service marks not owned by OASIS".

    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php

     

    I'm tempted to continue but I think I should stop here.

     

     


    From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
    Sent: 27 October 2010 17:27
    To: oasis-charter-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: RE: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS Business Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    "they will
    assume that the work of the group has something to do with buses
    and then puzzle unfruitfully over what "dox" could refer to."

    I didn't have any trouble with "dox". I assume it meant "docks" and that the spec had to do with where to park buses.

    --Ray



  • 10.  Re: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASISBusiness Document Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 15:45
    +1 - The proposed name is a project killer. 
    
    Patrick
    
    On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 11:18 -0400, Dave Ings wrote:
    > +1
    > 
    > Regards, Dave Ings,
    > Emerging Software Standards
    > Email: ings@ca.ibm.com 
    > Yahoo Messenger: dave_ings
    > 
    > Inactive hide details for Jon Bosak ---2010/10/27 11:14:21 AM---If the
    > intent of the name BusDox is to quickly convey the ideJon Bosak
    > ---2010/10/27 11:14:21 AM---If the intent of the name "BusDox" is to
    > quickly convey the idea that the TC has something to do wit
    > 
    > From: Jon Bosak 


  • 11.  Re: [oasis-charter-discuss] Re: Proposed Charter for OASIS BusinessDocument Exchange (BusDox) TC

    Posted 10-27-2010 20:25
    Me too.
    
    Rex
    
    On 10/27/10 8:43 AM, Patrick Durusau wrote:
    > +1 - The proposed name is a project killer.
    >
    > Patrick
    >
    > On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 11:18 -0400, Dave Ings wrote:
    >> +1
    >>
    >> Regards, Dave Ings,
    >> Emerging Software Standards
    >> Email: ings@ca.ibm.com
    >> Yahoo Messenger: dave_ings
    >>
    >> Inactive hide details for Jon Bosak ---2010/10/27 11:14:21 AM---If the
    >> intent of the name BusDox is to quickly convey the ideJon Bosak
    >> ---2010/10/27 11:14:21 AM---If the intent of the name "BusDox" is to
    >> quickly convey the idea that the TC has something to do wit
    >>
    >> From: Jon Bosak