OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

Sorry, Ming. I just realized that I only sent my comments to you.
Here's the combined version.

You were right, I was using a prior version of the document. Here's
comments on this version.

Change "play" to "auto-play" since I think that "auto-play" is more
indicative of what's going on.

Rather than saying, "The default is 'edit'", I would say that the
default should be application specific. The "edit" default makes a lot
of sense for OO.o or Koffice, but logically speaking an ODF ebook
reader like app would default to read-only. I think that it's clearly
app specific. Having said that, there's no reason that we cannot
recommend certain defaults for certain types of apps.

You only have 3 modes defined. It should be those 3 modes or anything
else. We should provide prose descriptions of those 3 modes that we
define while allowing anyone else to come up with modes that might be
useful to them. In future versions of the standard, we should look to
see if we need to add other modes.

Speaking of "Internet media type", we need to decide whether we are
going to use that terminology in the rest of the document. The
"Internet media type" is the modernized name for a MIME type.

In light of the previous comments, please make the following schema changes:
* take out the defaultvalue for the preferred-view-mode attribute
* add the ability to put arbitrary text in addition to the modes that
we define in the standard

wt

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Ming Fei Jia 

2008/4/20 Ming Fei Jia 

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Ming Fei Jia 

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:24 AM, Ming Fei Jia 

I am totally confused at this point. I don't understand what you want.
Therefore, I have included a file, generated with OpenOffice.org. It
is a presentation that plays itself once you start the presentation.
Please take a look and tell me if this is the functionality that you
are saying the play mode should enable.

I will reply more thoroughly to your other comments once I hear back
from you on this issue.

BTW, for the OO.o devs, I hope the interface for setting this timed
event stuff up is being improved in the future versions. This file was
generated on an OO.o 3.0 beta from Mar 14, 2008 for Mac Aqua.

Thanks,
wt

Warren I think you might be a little bit confused.  The point is not for the presentation to "play itself" in the automated manner you suggest.

When you present a presentation you open the file and by default you are in an edit mode - as is the case with the file you provide.  From here you would normally have to press the button, or select the menu item or press the shortcut key (all of these being application dependent) to actually "play" or "present" the presentation.  The only thing automatic which is being suggested is to arrive at this point (automatically) on opening the file.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the presentation should actually "play" itself.  Just that it should be possible to open it in a mode where it is ready to be "played" or presented rather than ready to be edited.

Cheers
Bob



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message -----
From: "Warren Turkal" 

Yes, Bob, what we want the preferred view mode is the view mode on opening the file. It is in a ready state on opening the file, ready to be "edit",ready to be "readonly" and ready to be "play". My previous comments just try to explain what my understanding of "play" is since Warren's some concerns. We do not try to define how and what the "edit" is,how and what the "readonly" is, how and what the "play" is. Additonally, here I understand "on opening the file" is just the user scenario, which already contains the "auto" meaning in the "auto-play"(in another word, "auto-play" is "play on opening the file"), so I suggest the view name is "play" instead of "auto-play".


Anyway, Warren remindered me, I'm looking forward to experiencing OO.o3.0 new features. I'm downloading..., but bandwidth is too slow, sigh:) Thanks Warren.

 

Sincerely,

_________________________________________________________

Mingfei Jia

Symphony Common App and Performance |  jiamingf@cn.ibm.com

IBM Corporation | Lotus Software

 8610-8245-2493 (phone) | 915-2493 (tie-line)




Bob Jolliffe ---04/25/2008 01:17:53 PM---Warren I think you might be a little bit confused. The point is not for the presentation to "play itself" in the automated man






From:


Bob Jolliffe <bobj@dst.gov.za>



To:


Warren Turkal <turkal@google.com>



Cc:


office@lists.oasis-open.org, Ming Fei Jia/China/IBM@IBMCN



Date:


04/25/2008 01:17 PM



Subject:


Re: [office] auto-play presentation file format like PPS





Warren I think you might be a little bit confused.  The point is not for the presentation to "play itself" in the automated manner you suggest.


When you present a presentation you open the file and by default you are in an edit mode - as is the case with the file you provide.  From here you would normally have to press the button, or select the menu item or press the shortcut key (all of these being application dependent) to actually "play" or "present" the presentation.  The only thing automatic which is being suggested is to arrive at this point (automatically) on opening the file.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that the presentation should actually "play" itself.  Just that it should be possible to open it in a mode where it is ready to be "played" or presented rather than ready to be edited.


Cheers

Bob




                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message -----

From: "Warren Turkal" <turkal@google.com>

To: "Ming Fei Jia" <jiamingf@cn.ibm.com>

Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org

Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:24:55 AM (GMT+0200) Africa/Harare

Subject: Re: [office] auto-play presentation file format like PPS


I am totally confused at this point. I don't understand what you want.

Therefore, I have included a file, generated with OpenOffice.org. It

is a presentation that plays itself once you start the presentation.

Please take a look and tell me if this is the functionality that you

are saying the play mode should enable.


I will reply more thoroughly to your other comments once I hear back

from you on this issue.


BTW, for the OO.o devs, I hope the interface for setting this timed

event stuff up is being improved in the future versions. This file was

generated on an OO.o 3.0 beta from Mar 14, 2008 for Mac Aqua.


Thanks,

wt


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On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Bob Jolliffe 

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Warren Turkal 

I'm new here, but there is something that I want to understand (I maybe 
loss a part of the conversations).

Why implement this functionality on manifest file, and why let it be 
linked to any MIME type content ?

I'm worried because the implementation on that item, really reminds me 
the OnOpen() handler that was used on MsOffice to run malicious code (or 
to run or call arbitrary content when the document is open - i.e. 
Melissa virus used that functionality).

Can we limit this proposed "manifest:preferred-view-mode" only to 
presentation files, or manage a way to insert this tag inside the header 
of presentation files ?

Best Regards,

Jomar

PS.: Usually, if you change the .PPS to .PPT the file opens on edit 
mode, so this is an application behavior, not a specific file attribute.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Jomar Silva

  


Warren Turkal escreveu:
8c3d85470804251200l7f197878v57135f93de86a4b4@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
  
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Jomar Silva
<jomar.silva@br.odfalliance.org> wrote:
  
  

    
I'm new here, but there is something that I want to understand (I maybe loss
a part of the conversations).

 Why implement this functionality on manifest file, and why let it be linked
to any MIME type content ?
    
  
  

Because the author should be able to indicate a preferred view. Think
of the following use case. If I wanted to develop a presentation as a
kind of digital brochure for my company, I would probably want the
presentation to immediately start upon opening the file. The preferred
view would allow me to specify this type of behavior by allowing me
(as the author) to put in a preferred-view-mode with a value of
"presentation-auto-start".

In another instance, I may be writing an ebook. I could have a
preferred-view-mode of readonly so that the ebook isnt editable by
default.

This is a generic method to allow the author to specify what the view
for the whole document is. It doesn't only apply to part of a
document.
  

I've understand the desired behavior, I'm asking about "the place" used
to store the information (I think that "any MIME type" is too much
comprehensive).


8c3d85470804251200l7f197878v57135f93de86a4b4@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
  

  

    
 I'm worried because the implementation on that item, really reminds me the
OnOpen() handler that was used on MsOffice to run malicious code (or to run
or call arbitrary content when the document is open - i.e. Melissa virus
used that functionality).
    
  
  

This attribute is meant to only take certain values. I don't see any
security implication in this schema considering that it doesn't allow
execution of arbitrary code.
  

Let me change the term used: "it may be used to run malicious MIME type
referenced content (as scripts)".

8c3d85470804251200l7f197878v57135f93de86a4b4@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
  
  
  

    
 Can we limit this proposed "manifest:preferred-view-mode" only to
presentation files, or manage a way to insert this tag inside the header of
presentation files ?
    
  
  

I don't think that would make sense as there are uses for the
preferred view mode in each of the different document types.

wt

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Jomar

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Jomar Silva

My main concern was about the usage of dubious valid values for the new 
"manifest:preferred-view-mode" attribute, and the impact of that on the 
package security (because this new attribute will be associated to a 
file and a MIME type, and seen that we may have a lot of file types 
inside a package, "play" can be interpreted as "play" or as "execute", 
and this is the point that I was trying to raise).

Reading again Warren's text proposition, I think that the limit of three 
know values ("edit", "readonly" and "presentation-auto-start"), with 
that last one limited to presentation files, and also the extension (or 
custom view) mechanism proposed (the "x-" thing) we address the problem 
that I've found.

The last problem that I see is the interpretation of the "x-" views by 
different applications, but seen that this attribute is an optional one, 
he may be ignored.

Regards,

Jomar

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:52 PM,  

It's not just a WHAT. I don't think that the concept applies to other
document types. The idea of starting a presentation automatically is
not the same as using a word processor document in an ebook-like mode.
There may be some similarities, but it is definitely not the same.

David has made a good case for the validity of the use case of
ebook-like functionality. Having said that, I don't have a good
description for it. We could always reserve the mode name and not
explicitly define what it does. It would allow the apps to innovate
and develop a best practice before we standardize it.

Here's how I classify the current proposed modes:

Modes I can define:
* edit
* read-only
* presentation-auto-start

Modes I don't have a good enough feel of to define:
* wordprocessor-ebook


Here's my summary of the situation as I understand it:

Issues with consensus:
* the tag should be called "preferred-view-mode"
* possible values for "preferred-view-mode" tag
  * edit
  * readonly
* the "preferred-view-mode" will have no default
* apps should be able to define custom values of "preferred-view-mode"

Unresolved issues:
* how applications represent custom values for "preferred-view-mode"
(maybe prepend with x- like email headers to avoid pollution of global
(i.e. spec defined) namespace)
* other standard defined values of the "preferred-view-mode" tag
(presentation-auto-start, play, wordprocessor-ebook)
* there should be a mode to represent a presentation that starts automatically
* there should be a mode that is something like an ebook for word processor docs

wt

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Ming Fei Jia 

Can I suggest the attribute value should be "slide-show".  It seems to capture the intersection of what we mean by "read-only" and "presentation-auto-start" in the context of presentation software, without any suggestion that this thing is going to start getting all "automatic" on us :-)

Regards
Bob



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message -----
From: "Warren Turkal" 

That's a really good name. However, I still think that it should be
prefixed with "presentation-" since it only applies to the
presentation doc type.

wt

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Bob Jolliffe