OASIS Universal Business Language (UBL) TC

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AW: [ubl] Using CCs correctly (was Re: [ubl] Review of Two Diffs (Michael/Sue's and Stephen's))

  • 1.  AW: [ubl] Using CCs correctly (was Re: [ubl] Review of Two Diffs (Michael/Sue's and Stephen's))

    Posted 07-01-2004 12:22
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    Subject: AW: [ubl] Using CCs correctly (was Re: [ubl] Review of Two Diffs (Michael/Sue's and Stephen's))


    ouch, ouch -
    I agree with Tim that it's quite difficult to find the proper view and way. Sometimes I feel that CCTS was made by many geniuses and then it has been handed over to normal people, which have to do the diligence work to fill the gaps these geniuses left.
     
    The CCs as of Bonn are TBG approved ones. Therefore more than a draft. But I do not know whether this has to be considered as a UN Standard draft already.
     
    Hisano mentioned several times that he is mainly interested in semantic interoperability, i.e. to use the same CCTS methodology. As far as I see Mark mentions that UBL does not fully meet the CCTS methodology. He explained this by describing at least two issues. This are issues where all the other CCTS pilots I know have the same interpretation. [off record: Mark is not the chief cook here. He just has the same position.]
     
    Additionally the different CCTS based projects came up with a lot of detailed questions where they feel that CCTS is unclear or maybe wrong. They want to fill the gaps I've mentioned above.
     
    Considering the real need those guys expressed, we started a discussion within the TBG and called the group ad hoc clarification. The current result of these awful analyses can be found in the TBG17 Submission and Procedure Document, which is an approved TBG document, I think. (Sue: is this correct?) The discussions continue and I expect from the GEFEG Berlin hosted meeting next week a further small step forward.
     
     
    Michael
     
    BTW: this English English is what I have to read several times in order to understand it. My dear native speakers: PLEASE us international English;-). You cannot expect that the rest of the World will be able to speak this fine English today. Maybe the world can, when the major language is U.S.will be Spanish, i.e. in 15 years from now.
    -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
    Von: Tim McGrath [mailto:tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au]
    Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Juli 2004 09:46
    An: Sue Probert
    Cc: MCRAWFORD@lmi.org; ubl@lists.oasis-open.org
    Betreff: Re: [ubl] Using CCs correctly (was Re: [ubl] Review of Two Diffs (Michael/Sue's and Stephen's))

    ouch!  i dont think anyone in UBL has a desire for a different furrow - we just dont know what the proper one is.  

    as the UBL liaison to CEFACT, perhaps you can answer the questions i put to Mark.  How can we implement core components today, for UBL 1.0 (or even UBL 1.1)?  where is it we have not applied CCTS semantic naming rules correctly?

    my point to Mark is that this is not going anywhere if  no-one can say what UBL needs to do to "work together with TBG17 to agree, prove, implement and pass on to the CCTS development team the clarifications which are essential to ensure that we can build and use a common Core Component Library."  personally, i thought UBL had done (and was still doing) this - but obviously you don't agree.

    I am not sure what you mean by "'throw their candidate CCs over the wall' and then do not participate in the spirit and the work of the follow-up harmonisation" - isn't that what the overlapping members and liaisons between UBL and TBG17 should be doing? Has there been any formal feedback or follow up from TBG17 to UBL?  as far as i know the work done by TBG17 is still within the CEFACT environment for comment and has not been published to a wider audience*.  so i find to hard to know how we can "be taking the TBG17 clariifications and their draft library into very serious consideration for UBL. "

    Am i missing something here? Does anyone else have an opinion on this?  Sue's comment about "giving wider international standardisation a try" should really be to the whole TC and not me personally (i hope).  

    * I am aware of some of the TBG17 work through seeing an excellent  presentation by Hisano Sugamata when I was in China at an ebXML Asia meeting last month - but this was presented as very much a first draft and was said to be still being debated within TBG17.


    Sue Probert wrote:
    Hi Tim
     
    TBG17 is a collection of people exactly trying to 'do something about this' and their number include several past and/or present UBL library SC members who care passionately about working together, under the only truly international business users forum that we have, to try and solve this problem in a single, published unambiguous way. This will not be trivial and it will not be easy.
     
    I humbly suggest that, in order to maximise all our world wide efforts to achieve the holy grail of improved semantic interoperability, we work together with TBG17 to agree, prove, implement and pass on to the CCTS development team the clarifications which are essential to ensure that we can build and use a common Core Component Library.
     
    This TBG17 work is progressing well with a number of useful clarifications already available togethre with a draft library which is certainly proving its worth with several user communities with which I am either working or familiar.
     
    How about UBL giving wider international standardisation a try, Tim? TBG17 cannot succeed while submitters simply finish their work, 'throw their candidate CCs over the wall' and then do not participate in the spirit and the work of the follow-up harmonisation. IMHO we should now be taking the TBG17 clariifications and their draft library into very serious consideration for UBL. BTW I do not believe that UBL will be able to achieve its potential impact if it continues to plough a separate CCTS furrow.
     
    regards
     
    Sue