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Re: [ubl] Namespace URI string implications

  • 1.  Re: [ubl] Namespace URI string implications

    Posted 06-06-2006 17:05
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    Subject: Re: [ubl] Namespace URI string implications


    At 2006-06-06 18:15 +0200, roberto@javest.com wrote:
    >I am sorry when I assert something or make a questions please understand I
    >could miss something from past discussions, I am new to this.
    
    No apology necessary!  Thank you for contributing to the discussion!
    
    >I think the namespaceURI is the right way to identify a new version or a
    >new information item, but about keeping the documentElement namespaceURI
    >across UBL versions I get a little worried.
    
    I understand your worry ... these are discussions of a foundational nature.
    
    >The filter-before-validation is a good solution to let the previous scene
    >work but I understand it works on new items only, what about overridden
    >ones (changed version) ?
    
    I need to understand what you mean by "overridden ones (changed 
    version)".  I am anticipating a revision, say UBL 2.1, to add to the 
    available children of a UBL 2.0 element, and those new children would 
    be identified by the new namespace ... but the namespace URI string 
    for the UBL 2.0 element doesn't change.  The filter-before-validation 
    step would remove the new 2.1 children in an established system that 
    is only validating against UBL 2.0.
    
    Doing this means that an established UBL 2.0 deployment can still 
    accept an instance with UBL 2.1 constructs inside without needing a 
    single change to any line of running code or validating schemata 
    because the filter-before-validation step means the class of 
    instances it is processing and validating hasn't changed.  And 
    because the changes are identified by namespace URI strings, even the 
    filter logic doesn't change.  All established deployments are 
    protected from any changes introduced by the central committee.  Only 
    those deployments where the new constructs are significant need to be 
    updated to accommodate the new constructs.  If we change the 
    namespace URI on the entire document, then all systems would have to 
    change (program code and validation) to accommodate instances with 
    the new URI and the filter-before-validation isn't needed and doesn't 
    provide any benefit.
    
    Could you describe for me where you see an "overridden" information 
    item to trigger a concern?
    
    >I understand that an UBL cross-version compatibility could be nice the
    >price should not be the complexity.
    
    Agreed.  But there are those who claim that having to change their 
    entire program to accommodate *all* of a document's information items 
    with new URI strings is more complex, and they complain that to have 
    to do this every time that UBL changes the namespace URI string for 
    information that is not of interest to them would be a waste.
    
    If filter-before-validation can be accepted as a practice, then I 
    think the complexity is in understanding why we resorted to this 
    practice, rather than how it is implemented.
    
    >I remember UBL promise is to be a simpler, stronger solution than past B2B
    >standards, I think complexity could exclude both little softwarehouses and
    >customers.
    
    I agree deployment complexity might scare away small programming 
    shops and customers.  I've recently been told by a number of 
    stakeholders in UBL and in the NES (a proposed UBL subset called the 
    North European Subset) that where programmers need to interface with 
    XML, there has to be a simple XSD interface that will allow them to 
    work with XML without knowing XML.
    
    The filter-before-validation achieves this by removing from the 
    stream those new information items that would trigger problems in 
    their interface that is geared to the old information items.
    
    >I still think the best way is to give the instruments to easyly upgrade
    >UBL versions (XSLT) and have a precise namespaceURI for each document.
    
    Thank you for having considered and shared your opinion.  Your 
    arguments have not alleviated concerns that I have about deployment 
    where two parties have each implemented UBL, they have not 
    established an explicit relationship between them, yet one wishes to 
    send the other a UBL document for processing.
    
    >When business partners agreements are configured with a precise UBL
    >version why they have to change? They should upgrate both to a newer
    >version I think.
    
    While the scenario you describe here of business partners being in 
    agreement supports the argument to have precise UBL versions for the 
    entire document, this takes away the opportunity for blind 
    interchange between two parties who do not have an agreement.
    
    With filter-before-validation and persistent namespace URI strings 
    for information items at a given version of UBL, and new namespace 
    URI strings only for the new information items being added to UBL, 
    then the two trading partners supporting different versions of UBL 
    can still effect blind interchange because their respective 
    implementations of filter-before-validation prepare the instances 
    from the other party that each receive for the programs they have written.
    
    >Thank you, it is just my opinion.
    
    And I thank you for sharing it!  Your perspective has given me ideas 
    about what to include in my paper to address the concerns that you 
    have, that I am sure others would have as well.
    
    I hope you have found the discussion worthwhile.
    
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken
    
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