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RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfacesdocument

  • 1.  RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfacesdocument

    Posted 06-11-2002 13:38
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    Subject: RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfacesdocument


    Title: Message
    Carsten,
     
    I apologize for the confusion.
     
    What I meant to say is that SOAP relies on an underlying stack of protocols.
     
    In our case, we can safely assume as much as optimization is concerned that the underlying protocol is HTTP (unless anybody has in mind SMTP portlets).
     
    In this case, one can use HTTP/1.1 as a transport mechanism for the SOAP requests. This does not require new opening new connections for every request.
     
    However, as you noted, this is not part of the common frameworks for SOAP. However, let's not forget that we must support the standard stack (SOAP/HTTP) but leveraging the existing frameworks is extremely important, but if there is a certain optimization that people can do outside those frameworks this is not something that should discouraged.
     
    More specifically, on the client (Consumer) side, I don't see this as a concern since we only need to have one proxy and we can manually construct it if necessary for the extra performance (it wouldn't be the first time that performance requires extra work, and I prefer that to a solution that the interface inherently implies extra work).
     
    On the server (Producer) side, I am more concerned: I am completely unaware of what the coupling between the Web server and the underlying frameworks is. If someone has an idea whether HTTP/1.1 can be forced to be used there, that would be beneficial.
     
    I disagree with you that is "tweaking" the transport: this may be tweaking the existing SOAP frameworks, but hey: they are just piece of auxiliary code, and I would rather look at is as moving beyond the infancy of the those frameworks.
     
    Eilon
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:47 AM
    To: Eilon Reshef
    Cc: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org; wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org; Thomas Klein6
    Subject: RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfaces document


    Eilon - i was not aware of this SOAP functionality. Can you detail a bit on
    this topic? How would I setup a batch call programatically? Is this batch
    processing part of the standard stacks (SOAP4J, AXIS, .NET)?


    Best regards
    Carsten Leue

    -------
    Dr. Carsten Leue
    Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B�blingen , Germany
    Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401



    |---------+----------------------------->
    |         |           Eilon Reshef      |
    |         |           <eilon.reshef@webc|
    |         |           ollage.com>       |
    |         |                             |
    |         |           06/10/2002 08:33  |
    |         |           PM                |
    |         |           Please respond to |
    |         |           Eilon Reshef      |
    |         |                             |
    |---------+----------------------------->
      >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

      |                                                                                                                                             |

      |       To:       wsia@lists.oasis-open.org, wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org                                                                        |

      |       cc:                                                                                                                                   |

      |       Subject:  RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfaces document                                                   |

      |                                                                                                                                             |

      |                                                                                                                                             |

      >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|



    Rich, isn't call batching available today at part of the relevant SOAP
    stack via HTTP/1.1, unless you use a code library that doesn't support it?
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
          Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 1:21 PM
          To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org; wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
          Subject: RE: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged
          interfaces document




          We have to work through the array idea as it as big performance
          implications and I don't see any indications that call batching at
          the SOAP
          stack level will be available in a relatively short timeframe.


          My understanding from the WSRP interfaces discussions is that a
          template is
          a portal concept. It is effectively a configured portlet that is used
          from
          a toolbox to design pages. The concept of an instance is a configured

          portlet that is linked to the layout of a portal page. This
          configuration
          MAY have come from cloning a template. From the perspective of what
          the
          Producer needs to support, both of these are particular
          configurations of
          an entity the service exposes with the Consumer choosing to use them
          in
          different ways. I have been searching for reasons why there would be
          a
          difference for the entity, but haven't found one yet.


          If I understand your question about transient entities correctly, you
          see
          why sessions should be separated from entities so that they can be
          shared
          but question whether services will ever expose entities that aren't
          persistent. I can certainly imagine entities with no persistence (the

          service that hosts them likely has some persistence of who may use
          them
          along with some use log for audit & billing purposes). A simple
          entity that
          puts a UI on a stock ticker feed may be a good example. It chooses to

          delegate all the billing issues to the service where it is deployed
          and all
          the configuration persistence to its Consumers. In this case,
          createPersistentEntities() would always fail as only transient
          entities are
          supported.







                                Andre Kramer

                                <andre.kramer@eu.        To:       Rich
          Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, wsia@lists.oasis-open.org,
                                citrix.com>
          wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
                                                         cc:

                                06/10/2002 10:37         Subject:  RE: [wsia]
          [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged
                                AM                        interfaces
          document








          Supporting a batch operation mode through arrays does not seem very
          clean.
          In the "getFragment"
          case (getFragments?), the portal will most likely then have to wait
          until
          the whole array is
          returned (i.e. all remote portlets have rendered) before it can
          display the
          resulting mark-up.
          How many consumer to producer parallel calls do we expect typically?
          I
          would
          rather leave
          call batching up to the (future) SOAP stack.


          Always using "Entity" as the thing to create remotely seem to loose
          the
          "class" versus "object"
          semantics that the WSRP "template" and "instance" operation names
          used to
          imply. Do we now see no
          no difference between remote data storage - 'templates' (possibly
          with
          inheritance) and
          computational entities - 'instances', that WSRP seems to naturally
          call
          for?
          Or are these the
          persistent v.s. transient entities of the document (for me, portlet
          instances persist too)?


          In trying to follow the discussion, I'm confused as to why we need
          both
          sessions and transient
          entities, both being under the control of the consumer. I do see a
          need for
          common sessions
          (same user/group or consumer portal) but do not see the need for
          other
          transient entities,
          expecting a consumer to have to pay for all entities, in some way, in
          the
          real world. I know
          the next call will discuss these but could someone give a brief
          rational
          before then?


          Thanks,
          Andre


          Andre Kramer, Citrix Systems, Inc.


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Rich Thompson [mailto:richt2@us.ibm.com]
          Sent: 07 June 2002 20:38
          To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org; wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
          Subject: [wsia] [wsrp] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Merged interfaces

          document






          Here is a draft of the merged interfaces document that Carsten and I
          have
          been working on this week. The largest conceptual change from the
          previous
          0.44 Joint Spec Draft is the appearance of arrays in most of the
          operations. This allows Consumers on the scale of portals to
          efficiently
          interact with Producer services.


          (See attached file: WSIA - WSRP Interface Specification.doc)









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