I find that the question of a Consumer creating a
persistent vs. a transient
entity to be a little
troubling.
Isn't the Consumer primarily interested in getting a
handle to an _entity_
(be that transient or
persistent), and then using that handle to direct
subsequent requests to?
Could we not consider persistence and transience to be
entirely Producer
concerns? I understand
from the sequence in the spec (pp. 6-8) that the
only supporting scenario for the Consumer calling
"createTransientEntity" is
out of an effort to
maximize the efficiency of the conversation with the
Producer. This is a worthy goal, of course, but the Producer
should
advertise its interaction behavior in the
meta-data, right? Presumably the
Producer
uses the meta-data to hint to the Consumer the way(s) the Consumer
SHOULD structure invocation requests efficiently.
I'd love to see some more convincing scenarios to support
pushing the
persistent/transient aspect of the
conversation out to the Consumer.
Otherwise, I'd
love even more to limit our specification to a single
"createEntity" call.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:19 AM
To: Gil Tayar
Cc: thomas klein6;
'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org';
'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'
Subject: RE:
[wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11 June
Gil -
1-3: the consumer MUST explicitly create entities
(transient or
persistent). It can decide to create
sessions explicitly if it wants to
share them
amongs entities, otherwise it can let the producer create
sessions on the fly.
4: the decision to
have multiple entities per session is up to the consumer
who make this choice based on the producer's metadata. e.g think
of
portlets that form a shop together. These would
want to share a session
with each other. But the
consumer could decide to have two shops of the
same type on the same page. Then there would be two sessions and
only the
consumer could know what portlet shares
what session.
5: The consumer should create a
session before issuing a getFragment call.
The
entity is created whenever necessary.
6: A Session
is a bucket that holds some data (physically on the provider)
and times-out after a while. A transient entity is a
remote portlet that
does not store any data in a
DB.
Hope that helped.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B�blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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09:28 |
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Tayar |
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To: Carsten
Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
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<wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>,
"'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>, Thomas|
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[wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda
for Tuesday 11
June
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Carsten, could you clarify some things for me?
1. If sessions and entities are orthogonal, what SHOULD
the Consumer do?
2. SHOULD it create a transient
entity _and_ a session?
3. MUST it do so?
4. Who gets to decide whether there are multiple entities
per session or
multiple sessions per
entities?
5. When SHOULD a Consumer create a
session and when a transient entity?
6. What _is_
a session, logically? What _is_ a transient entity?
Gil
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:CLEUE@de.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 08:45
To: Alan Kropp
Cc:
'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'; 'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'; thomas
klein6
Subject: Re: [wsrp] [wsia]
[wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday 11
June
Alan - some first thoughts
1. the general concept is that entities (transient or
persistent) and
sessions are orthogonal. There
might be mulitple entities per session and
(at
least for persistent entities) multiple sessions per entity. An
example
for the first case would be that entities
share session data within the
same user
request. An example for the second case are portlets on a common
page (group page) that are access simultaneously by
multiple users.
A transient entity differs from a
persistent entity in that its data does
not
persist and its lifecycle is coupled with the session life cycle.
2. Eilon pointed out in a comment to the interface
proposal that batch
processing is already part of
SOAP. I was not aware of that and will look
it up
until the call.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B�blingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| Alan
Kropp |
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<akropp@epicentri|
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c.com>
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01:54 |
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AM
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respond to|
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| Alan
Kropp |
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To:
"'wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org>,
"'wsia@lists.oasis-open.org'"
<wsia@lists.oasis-open.org>
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cc:
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[wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday
11
June
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I think we'll have plenty of discussion around the merged
document Rich and
Carsten put together.
The two main issues I see that have arisen on the email
lists are:
1. What is the difference between transient entities
and sessions, and is
there enough of a distinction
to warrant including both in the
specification?
2. There are efficiency concerns around the use of
arrays in the method
signatures, basically to
enable batched requests for network efficiency.
Call-in numbers:
USA Toll
Free Number: 877-718-0936
USA Toll Number:
+1-712-923-6878
PARTICIPANT PASSCODE:
563151
Alan
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