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RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search results page,map services, transient entities.

  • 1.  RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search results page,map services, transient entities.

    Posted 06-12-2002 14:10
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    Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search results page,map services, transient entities.


    I am not questioning whether the design makes sense. I was questioning the phrasing of the problem to demonstrate the
    need for transient entities and I was looking for a convincing business scenario where the need for transient entities
    is clear. As long as there is an alternative, fairly clean solution to the problem, the rationale would not be clear.

    Eilon and I talked about the scenario when the customization call ended early today. We agreed that
    - my solution made sense for the particular phrasing problem
    - and refining the problem where the search results page
    - actually is showing page fragments from each of the map services
    - and the number of results is unbounded (e.g all map services are not part of a single hotel chain).
    makes a good case for transient entities.

    Ravi Konuru

    Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS




            Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS

            06/12/2002 01:22 PM



    To: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org, wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
    cc:
    Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search results page, map services, transient entities.





    It sounds like you are questioning whether the design proposed for the
    Consumer's search result page makes sense. I would respond that not only
    does it make sense, I have seen the equivalent on the web already (don't
    remember where, but it was the basic scenario Eilon laid out). You are
    basically there when you state that the search page could present a set of
    clickable GIFs ... the question is where do these come from. Two basic
    choices are that the Consumer prefetches them into a local cache and just
    makes a connection to the search result record OR that for each result
    record, the Consumer creates a transient entity at a Producer, sets the
    configuration such that an appropriate GIF is generated and the Producer
    includes whatever logic is needed to deal with clicks on the GIF. I would
    argue that the architecture should not exclude either approach (both have
    their advantages) and that the second approach is a good case where the
    context known only by the Consumer is what dictates whether a persistent or
    transient entity is appropriate.




                         Ravi
                         Konuru/Watson/IBM        To:       wsia@lists.oasis-open.org, wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
                         @IBMUS                   cc:
                                                  Subject:  RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search
                         06/12/2002 10:53          results page, map services, transient entities.
                         AM





    I don't understand why transient entities are created in this scenario. Why
    is the search results page creating the transient entities?
    I can think of a case where the search results page provides a set of
    clickable GIFs that correspond to the hotel services but NOT actually
    create transient entities at the Producer. If the user actually clicks on
    one of them, it is at that time the consumer requests the producer to
    create an entity (transient or persistent) and then embeds the output of
    the entity in its web page.

    Am I missing something?

    thanks,
    Ravi Konuru

    (Embedded image moved to file: pic28419.gif)Carsten Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE


    (Embed (Embedded image moved to file:     (Embedded image moved to file:
    ded    pic00419.gif)                      pic30879.gif)
    image                          Carsten
    moved                          Leue/Germa To: Eilon Reshef
    to                             ny/IBM@IBM <eilon.reshef@webcollage.com>
    file:                          DE         cc: "'Alan Kropp'"
    pic116                                    <akropp@epicentric.com>,
    57.gif                                    wsia@lists.oasis-open.org,
    )                              06/12/2002 wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org
                                   06:57 AM   Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia]
                                              [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
                                              agenda for Tuesday 11 June






    I think that this is a very good scenario where transient entities make
    sense.


    Best regards
    Carsten Leue

    -------
    Dr. Carsten Leue
    Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B�blingen , Germany
    Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401



    |---------+----------------------------->
    | | Eilon Reshef |
    | | <eilon.reshef@webc|
    | | ollage.com> |
    | | |
    | | 06/11/2002 08:35 |
    | | PM |
    | | Please respond to |
    | | Eilon Reshef |
    | | |
    |---------+----------------------------->
    >
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

    | |
    | To: "'Alan Kropp'" <akropp@epicentric.com>, wsia@lists.oasis-open.org,
    wsrp@lists.oasis-open.org |
    | cc: |
    | Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
    Tuesday 11 June |
    | |
    | |
    >
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




    Alan,

    I think that one example scenario is a search results page, say for hotels,
    that dynamically displays multiple maps - a map for each hotel found.

    Assuming that maps are remote services, and assuming that the number of
    results is dynamic, the Consumer needs to create multiple copies of the map
    service. If we allow the Producer to determine the persistence state of
    those maps, that would mean that someone will have to take care of the
    lifetime of those maps. The Consumer can't, because the page may be gone
    without the Consumer never knowing about it (the user closes the browser
    window). The Producer can't, because it can't tell whether the Consumer has
    stored a reference to those maps as part of a design-time description of a
    user page.

    Is that along the lines of what you were looking for?

    Eilon