docbook-apps

davep <davep@dpawson.co.uk> writes:
> No problem with line numbers. I guess it's the outcome we want
> rather than how it is done?
> Would that work with insertions too? E.g. lines with (6) etc
> which are referred to in commentary?

Yes, that should still work.

>> As long as I'm airing dirty laundry, I'm also tempted to abandon the
>> XSL stylesheets and work instead on a purpose-built HTML+CSS rendering
>> for printing.
>
> I can see you getting 80% with html and CSS...
> My penneth says you'll fall over on the 20% so I'm -1 on this.
> Do you believe you can do it?
> What of re-ordering, toc etc?

Oh, you'd need a "for print" HTML stylesheet. There's lots of things
that CSS can't do. But I still think that would be easier for most
people than dealing with XSL FO.

Be seeing you,
norm

--
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | As the old hermit of Prague, that
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | never saw pen and ink, very
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | wittily said to the niece of King
| Gorboduc, 'That that is, is'.--
| Shakespeare

On 09/12/13 16:09, Norman Walsh wrote:

>> I can see you getting 80% with html and CSS...
>> My penneth says you'll fall over on the 20% so I'm -1 on this.
>> Do you believe you can do it?
>> What of re-ordering, toc etc?
>
> Oh, you'd need a "for print" HTML stylesheet. There's lots of things
> that CSS can't do. But I still think that would be easier for most
> people than dealing with XSL FO.
>
> Be seeing you,
> norm
>


I have to agree with you Norm. I still think there will be
things that (today) CSS can't do? That should change over (guess)
the next 3-4 years?
What workflow would it be then?
XSLT to obtain the selected / added /re-organised output, then CSS to
style it?




regards

--
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk

10 dec 2013 kl. 07:59 skrev davep <davep@dpawson.co.uk>:

> On 09/12/13 16:09, Norman Walsh wrote:
>
>>> I can see you getting 80% with html and CSS...
>>> My penneth says you'll fall over on the 20% so I'm -1 on this.
>>> Do you believe you can do it?
>>> What of re-ordering, toc etc?
>>
>> Oh, you'd need a "for print" HTML stylesheet. There's lots of things
>> that CSS can't do. But I still think that would be easier for most
>> people than dealing with XSL FO.
>
>
> I have to agree with you Norm. I still think there will be
> things that (today) CSS can't do? That should change over (guess)
> the next 3-4 years?
> What workflow would it be then?
> XSLT to obtain the selected / added /re-organised output, then CSS to style it?

I'd like to chime in here for a second or two. I think it is also important to ask in which direction Docbook (and other XML standards too for that matter) need to evolve in the near future. If you look at marketshare for desktop computer vs mobile devices, one will realise that the number of mobile devices has exploded the last couple of years. And this trend will definitely continue over the next decade or two. On the other hand, number of desktop computers has decreased tremendously.

Where does DB come into this picture? Personally, I think that HTML output will (and should) become more important to focus on than anything else. It is not XSL/FO that gets attention today, it's CSS. In my opinion, XSL/FO is a dead end. It has a rather steep learning curve, there are only three production ready formatters available and I cannot see any signs of increased effort to develop XSL/FO any further. I've already customers that are more and more reluctant to pay for XSL/FO development. Partly because these customers don't want to be forced into one single technology and/or one single developer.

If Docbook would switch to CSS based PDF generation, and you are able to achieve 80% of all the features that come with the PDF format, that's absolutely fine with me. I am convinced that it's only a matter of time before we reach those remaining 20%.

/frank

ps. sorry for my english. I'm not a native english speaker… ds.

> regards
>
> --
> Dave Pawson
> XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
> http://www.dpawson.co.uk
>
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On 10/12/13 09:41, Frank Arensmeier wrote:
> 10 dec 2013 kl. 07:59 skrev davep <davep@dpawson.co.uk>:
>
>> On 09/12/13 16:09, Norman Walsh wrote:
>>
>>>> I can see you getting 80% with html and CSS... My penneth says
>>>> you'll fall over on the 20% so I'm -1 on this. Do you believe
>>>> you can do it? What of re-ordering, toc etc?
>>>
>>> Oh, you'd need a "for print" HTML stylesheet. There's lots of
>>> things that CSS can't do. But I still think that would be easier
>>> for most people than dealing with XSL FO.
>>
>>
>> I have to agree with you Norm. I still think there will be things
>> that (today) CSS can't do? That should change over (guess) the next
>> 3-4 years? What workflow would it be then? XSLT to obtain the
>> selected / added /re-organised output, then CSS to style it?
>
> I'd like to chime in here for a second or two. I think it is also
> important to ask in which direction Docbook (and other XML standards
> too for that matter) need to evolve in the near future. If you look
> at marketshare for desktop computer vs mobile devices, one will
> realise that the number of mobile devices has exploded the last
> couple of years. And this trend will definitely continue over the
> next decade or two. On the other hand, number of desktop computers
> has decreased tremendously.

It is not quite zero yet.


>
> Where does DB come into this picture? Personally, I think that HTML
> output will (and should) become more important to focus on than
> anything else. It is not XSL/FO that gets attention today, it's CSS.
> In my opinion, XSL/FO is a dead end.

IMHO some/many docbook users do want print output. How it is obtained
is a means to an end.



>
> If Docbook would switch to CSS based PDF generation, and you are able
> to achieve 80% of all the features that come with the PDF format,

Only 80%? And just ignore the rest? No thanks.
When CSS can hack docbook, then fine.
Docbook was a torture test for xsl-fo, I think it can be
the same for CSS for print.






regards

--
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk