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Subject: Re: [ubl-ndrsc] Minutes for 28 August 2002 UBL NDR SC meeting
Mavis-- Thanks for doing such a great job on NDR stuff this week! Some
questions and comments below:
Mavis Cournane wrote:
> 1. Roll call (quorum is 8)
>
> * Bill Burcham YES
> * Mavis Cournane YES
> * Mark Crawford YES y:10
> * Fabrice Desr� no
> * Matt Gertner no
> * Arofan Gregory YES
> * Jessica Glace YES x:50
> * Michael Grimley YES
> * Eduardo Gutentag YES
> * Eve Maler no
> * Sue Probert YES
> * Lisa Seaburg YES
> * Gunther Stuhec no
> * Paul Thorpe YES
> * Kris Ketels no
>
> Quorum acheived (x:15)
>
>
>
> 2. Acceptance of minutes of previous meeting
>
> 21 August 2002
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200208/msg00032.html
>
> Minutes accepted
>
> 3. Adoption of agenda/schedule planning
>
> August 28:
> - Regrets from Eve
> - Regrets Fabrice
> - NDR document review
> September 4:
> - Regrets from Paul Thorpe
> September 11:
> - Regrets from Paul Thorpe, possibly from folks in Geneva
> - NDR document review
> September 18:
> - Regrets from Gunther Stuhec
> - Approve documents for review distribution #3
> September 25:
> - No meeting; work on other UBL tasks instead
> October 1-4:
> - F2F #5 in Burlington, MA, USA
>
> A NDR document improvements (review every two weeks)
> A+ Embedded documentation NEARLY DONE
> A Code lists IN PROGRESS
> A Dates and times IN PROGRESS
> A Nested supplementary components IN PROGRESS
> A Identifier references and whether to pass content by reference
> A- Local vs. global elements
> B+ Containership IN PROGRESS
It looks like this has become an A+. :-)
> B Updating guiding principles
> B Modnamver URN/schema location
> B Referencing of content, e.g. for attachments
> C Facets
> C Wildcards/open content
> C Nillability
> C Aggregation of similar information for XPath V1.0 addressing
>
> 4. Action item review
>
> Lisa:
> - Send out the normalization paper. DONE
> - NEW: Ask Tim to fix the Identifier->ID spreadsheet formula bug. 80% DONE
> - NEW: Check whether we have an inappropriate rule on treating
> RTs as reserved. DONE (none found)
>
> Arofan:
> - Update the embedded documentation paper according to August 7
> decisions. DONE
Cool! Has this been sent out?
> Mavis:
> - Update the issues spreadsheet with Eve's comments.
> - Amend NDR document to add example code for Period. DONE
> - Update NDR draft 15 with comments from our August 14 comments.
> DONE
> - Update issues spreadsheet to contain externally received NDR
> comments. DONE
>
> Eve:
> - Finish draft of code list document. IN PROGRESS
I'm considering this DONE, though I'll probably do small updates over
time. (We do have a few outstanding issues in there.)
> - See if Mavis might be available for August 28 call. DONE
> - NEW: Raise awareness of the containership issue to the CSC.
This is DONE.
> Gunther:
> - Write content referencing paper. IN PROGRESS
> - Send date/time NDR snippets to Mavis. IN PROGRESS
> - With Arofan, prepare samples of how to handle second-tier
> attributes. IN PROGRESS
> - Bring the donkey to Burlington!
>
> Bill:
> - Update modnamver paper by September 11.
> - Start an email thread proposing a schema location solution.
> - NEW: Start a thread on RTs in aggregates and possible NDR
> document bugs in this area.
In talking with Bill about this a couple of days ago, I got the
impression he was happy with the NDR wording and didn't find any bugs.
So this may be CANCELED.
> 5. Other SC reports
>
> Lisa Seaburg reported that the LCSC discussed the distribution and are awaiting
> comments on it.
> Matt is no longer the chair of CM.
>
> 6. Chairs SC issues
>
> A. How to put the containerize rule to the UBL comments list. (Arofan to
> explain)
> B. Joint meetings between NDR and LCSC.
>
> THe Chairs SC met on Mon August 2th. The issue was raised regarding 3 differing
> opinions on containership. It became clear Gunther's OO, Tims view of
> methodology and Arofan's containership are in conflict. To help resolve the
> issues there will be common calls for the LCSC and NDRSC next week. Mavis will
> receive call details for the joint LCSC call on Tues from Lisa and advise NDR
> participants. Jon Bosak suggested that NDR propose a containership rule on the
> UBL-Comment List for discussion. NDR will spend time on wording this rule today
> and put it into a form for public review. In terms of the joint call next Tues
> with LCSC Arofan can make it, Michael cannot, Bill won't make it, Eduardo will
> try, Lisa will make it, Sue probably not, Paul won't and Mavis will try.
I can make at least the first hour.
> The NDR SC worked on the wording of the Containership proposal and puts forward
> the following:
>
> The NDR SC advocates the use of containers for the following reasons:
>
> * having the flexibility to extend content models using XSD
> * for efficient use of existing XML tools and technologies (e.g. XPath etc.)
> * general issues of clarity and usability
>
>
> The NDR SC wishes to put forth the following rule for containership for
> feedback from participants on the ubl-comment list. This proposal merely
> touches on part of the wider containership issue. Please note that this
> diverges from the modelling in the current distribution OP65.
>
> A group of like elements constitutes a model element in its own right. The type
> of the containing element has a relationship to the type of the contained
> element. The name of the container Type uses the type name of the contained
> element and adds the word "List".
>
> Here is an example of the proposed model:
>
> The Order object class has a property called LineItemList. LineItemList is an
> instance of the object class called LineItemList. A LineItemList contains one
> or more instances of object class LineItem.
>
> The dictionary entry name for this property LineItemList is
> Order.LineItemList.LineItemList.
This assumes that we are no longer using "Details" in the position of a
representation term, but instead the type of the property. I agree with
this idea in principle, but did this get discussed as a separate item
and agreed to? Conflating the type-as-RT issue with containership of
series of like items -- especially since 0pt65 emphatically doesn't
follow this type-as-RT rule -- may be very confusing to reviewers.
> When the existing naming rules are applied the resultant XML element name
> would be LineItemList.
>
> Consequently, you have the freedom to choose a property term that differs from
> the representation term to accomodate elements that might be named as follows:
> Dictionary Entry Name = Order.Accepted.LineItemList with an XML element name of
> AcceptedLineItemList.
This isn't how our existing naming rules work (I thought). We assume in
our rules that "Details" is the RT, and "Details" always gets dropped --
but if the RT is something else (at the aggregate level), we don't say
whether it gets dropped.
> Here are the XML instances for these two examples
>
> Example 1.
> <LineItemList>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> </LineItemList>
>
> Note that LineItemList is of type LineItemList.
>
> Example 2.
> <AcceptedLineItemList>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> <LineItem...></LineItem...>
> </AcceptedLineItemList>
>
> Note that here also the type of AcceptedLineItemList is LineItemList.
By the way, I couldn't see how Mike Grimley's correction differed from
what you have here.
> 7. NDR Draft 16 Review
> Done
> NDR Spreadsheet Review deferred.
>
> 8. Finish embedded documentation decisions
>
> deferred
> 9. Adjourn
> Y:50
Thanks,
Eve
--
Eve Maler +1 781 442 3190
Sun Microsystems cell +1 781 883 5917
XML Web Services / Industry Initiatives eve.maler @ sun.com
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