OASIS ebXML Messaging Services TC

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RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path Problem

  • 1.  RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path Problem

    Posted 11-12-2001 15:57
    Marty
    
    In the examples you give, are these PartyIds or are they the URL to which a
    message is physically sent. I'm assuming the latter.
    
    If so, then your suggestion works for the outbound message but I doesn't as
    far as I can see work for *the return path* as the MSH returning the message
    does not know which service sent the original message and therefore what it
    should put on the end of the URL.
    
    For example, if the outbound message was as follows ...
    
    <MessageHeader>
      <From><PartyId>XYZinc</PartyId></From>
      <To><PartyId>ABCco</PartyId></To>
      <CPAId>ABC-XYZ-CPA</CPAId>
      <ConversationId>5678</ConversationId
      <Service>PriceCheck</Service>
      <Action>PriceCheckResponse</Action>
      <MessageData>
        <MessageId>56723</MessageId>
        <RefToMessageId>79465</RefToMessageId>
        ...
      </MessageData>
      ...
    </MessageHeader>
    
    ... then the only way the MSH sending the response to this message can know
    what to put at the end of the URL is from the CPAId and the agreement that
    was set up previously. 
    
    This means that you need separate CPAs for, in Use Case 1, the Buyer order
    Management Service and the Price Query Service. I don't think this is right
    as why should XYZ Co care which internal service made the request for a
    Price Check.
    
    ... or am I missing something.
    
    David
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:21 AM
    To: Burdett, David
    Cc: 'Miller, Robert (GXS)'; Burdett, David; 'ebXML Messaging (E-mail)'
    Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path Problem
    
    
    
    The way I read Bob Miller's posting he is suggesting completely separating
    routing through the network from the PartyIds. He is suggesting using the
    endpoint URL to do the routing in the standard way.  Thus a message might
    go to
    
       http://www.ABCco.com/CustomerService   or
       http://www.ABCco.com/Procurement/CustomerService
    
    The domain name gets the message to the mail room and the rest of the
    segments of the URL get it to its final destination behind the mail room.
    The enterprise may design the routing however it wishes and express it in
    the URL.
    
    Regards,
    Marty
    ****************************************************************************
    *********
    
    Martin W. Sachs
    IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
    P. O. B. 704
    Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
    914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
    Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
    Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
    ****************************************************************************
    *********
    
    
    
    "Burdett, David" <david.burdett@commerceone.com> on 11/12/2001 12:47:45 PM
    
    To:    "'Miller, Robert (GXS)'" <Robert.Miller@gxs.ge.com>, "Burdett,
           David" <david.burdett@commerceone.com>, "'ebXML Messaging (E-mail)'"
           <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
    cc:
    Subject:    RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path Problem
    
    
    
    
    Bob
    
    This  effectively what I am suggesting except that I want to make it
    explicit. The  PartyId should identify the "business" or a division of the
    business. In the  real world we would would say,please reply to:
    
    ��� Customer Service
    ��� ABC Co
    ��� 123 Main St
    ��� Smallville, CA
    
    In  this instance the internal department is "Customer Service" and the
    Party is  "ABC Co".
    
    Doing  it your way we would say, please reply to:
    
    ��� Customer Service, ABC Co
    ��� 123 Main St
    ��� Smallville, CA
    
    Where "Customer Service,  ABC Co" is the Party and department  combined.
    
    Although we could do it the way you suggest and  concatenate the two in the
    spec, this is not the best way to do it if you are  using XML where the
    whole idea is to make the different elements of a data  structure explicit.
    It also causes problems for the recipient. For example,  following your
    suggestion your PartyId might look something  like:
    
    
    <From><PartyId>urn:duns:1234567:fromservice:CustService</PartyId></From>
    
    The recipient now has a problem that they don't which  part of the PartyId
    identifies the business and which the service unless we  specify the
    standard in the spec. This means that they might not even be able to
    recognize the sending Party. I think it would be much easier if we  had:
    
    
    <From><PartyId>urn:duns:1234567</PartyId><Service>CustService</Service></Fro
    m>
    
    In this case the PartyID represents the business and  the "From Service" is
    identified separately. So really I am agreeing with you  except that I
    think we should make the information explicit rather than buried  in the
    PartyId.
    
    David
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Miller, Robert (GXS)  [mailto:Robert.Miller@gxs.ge.com]
    Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001  6:24 AM
    To: Burdett, David; 'ebXML Messaging  (E-mail)'
    Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path  Problem
    
    
    
    Good People,
    
    In the EDI world, we simply use multiple from party  addresses.� For
    example, we might use a DUNS number, in which the high  order part of the
    number has been assigned to our compnay, and the low order  portion is
    internally assigned.
    
    Seems to me that life gets even easier in the Internet  world.� We're all
    familiar with the EMail 'mailroom'.� It's the name  that follows the "@"
    symbol.� The internal address is the part that  preceeds the "@" symbol.
    We're also familiar with subaddesses in the  WWW.� The mailroom address
    preceeds the '/', and the subaddresses follow  the first '/'/
    
    Why isn't the obvious solution being considered?� I'm  confused.
    
    Cheers,
    ������� Bob Miller
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From:  Burdett, David [mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com]
    Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 7:31 PM
    To: 'ebXML Messaging (E-mail)'
    Subject:  [ebxml-msg] RE: The Return Path Problem
    
    I forgot the attachment ... ;(
    
    David
    �<<The Return Path  Problem.pdf>>
    
    >� -----Original Message-----
    > From: ������� Burdett,  David
    > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 5:28  PM
    > To:�� ebXML Messaging  (E-mail)
    > Subject:�����  The Return Path Problem
    >
    > Folks
    >
    >  Here's a PDF that describes three use cases that illustrate the return
    > path problem that is on the agenda for next week's F2F.  Two of the use
    > cases are from the meeting at SAP  in October which we never got round to
    > discussing  the third is new.
    >
    > I  also suggest some solutions. Note that these are suggestions and I am
    > open to alternatives.
    >
    > If anyone has any comments before the meeting  then ... ;)
    >
    >  Regards
    >
    > David
    >
    > Product Manager, xCBL, XML  Standards
    > Solution Strategy, Commerce One
    > 4400 Rosewood Drive, Pleasanton, CA 94588, USA
    > Tel/VMail: +1 (925) 520 4422; Cell: +1 (925) 216  7704
    > mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com;  Web: http://www.commerceone.com
    >