Yes, I am very aware of this. Once again, CPA is driving Messaging. As long as there is only one CollaborationRole per CPA/PartyInfo, this is not a problem. But, if CollaborationRole is REQUIRED then if Messaging is to align with CPA, we will have to REQUIRE the Role element (it can no longer occur zero times). This is what this discussion is really about. CPA needs this element so we want Messaging to change. OTOH, we have implementers with market-ready code, who will now have to change. This is why W3C gets much of its bad press -- it takes too long to get a standard out and implementors end up suffering. David.