OASIS ebXML Messaging Services TC

RE: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about ConversationId

  • 1.  RE: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about ConversationId

    Posted 12-03-2001 18:28
    
    David,
    
    If things are working right, the end of a conversation should NEVER be
    controlled by persistDuration.  The end of a conversation is when the
    application (or conversation management middleware) says that it's the end.
    
    If persistDuration expires before the software says that the conversation
    is ended, it is  killing the conversation due to an abnormal condition.  I
    hope that the MSH would at least have the decency to notify the upper
    levels that it has killed a conversation. Once the conversation has been
    killed by the MSH, no further messages should be sent with the same
    conversation ID since that would confuse the heck out of the upper levels.
    The possiblity of that happening means that perhaps there should be a
    "start of conversation" indicator in the message header so that a receiving
    MSH can distinguish between the start of a new conversation and belated
    messages for conversations that it has killed.
    
    Note also that persistDuration may have a very different time scale if we
    are going to apply it to the conversationId since a conversation can last
    minutes or longer (maybe even weeks), depending on what is going on in the
    conversation.
    
    All of this suggests that we would do well to leave all conversation
    management, including routing of messages by conversationId, to the upper
    levels. That would avoid the need to figure out how long the MSH has to
    persist a conversationId.
    
    Regards,
    Marty
    *************************************************************************************
    
    Martin W. Sachs
    IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
    P. O. B. 704
    Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
    914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
    Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
    Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
    *************************************************************************************
    
    
    
    David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com> on 12/03/2001 03:44:24 PM
    
    To:    SHIMAMURA Masayoshi <shima.masa@jp.fujitsu.com>, Dan Weinreb
           <dlw@exceloncorp.com>, Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
    cc:    ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject:    RE: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about ConversationId
    
    
    
    I seem to be missing something.  The end of a conversation is controlled by
    persistDuration, isn't it?  I think the ConversationId is held in
    persistent
    store with the MessageId (at least in the case of MessageOrdering).  Along
    with,
    or in, the MessageId record, there must be a persistDuration field.  When
    the
    last message in that conversation is deleted from the persistent store
    (persistDuration has passed), wouldn't the ConversationId automatically go
    with
    it?  If there are still messages waiting because they are out of order,
    would
    they not also be deleted when persistDuration expires?  If you are
    concerned
    with messages going away too quickly, then make persistDuration long.
    
    There is nothing forbidding another later message to be sent with the
    original
    ConversationId but the message order would not be of concern since all the
    previous messages have expired anyway.
    
    Or, are you saying ConversationId is held somewhere else?
    
    Regards,
    
    David Fischer
    Drummond Group.