OASIS XML Localisation Interchange File Format (XLIFF) TC

  • 1.  Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 06:49
    In an effort to simplify and clarify the Validation Module, we would like to propose the following changes in response to csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061. This table summarizes the changes that will need to be made to the module’s attributes that signify “rules”.   Current Proposal Rule Processing Requirements noLoc="World" isPresent="World" World is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(World)(1)"  isPresent="World" occurs="1" World is found in the target text exactly once. Value of occurs can be 1 or greater.  mustLoc="World" isNotPresent="World" World is not found in the target text. mustLoc="(World)(Welt)" isNotPresent="World" isPresent="Welt" World is not found in the target text. Welt is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(&#160;&#160;)(0)"  isNotPresent="&#160;&#160;" Two consecutive non-breaking spaces are not found in the target text. Placeholder="World" World is found in both source and target text the same number of times. startsWith="(” startsWith="(” Target text starts with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no". endsWith=")" endsWith=")" Target text ends with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no".   Additionally, the following changes to processing requirements:   ·         I.1.2.2 - second bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <group> level, rules must be applied to all <target> elements within the scope of <group>, except where overrides are specified in a nested <group> element , or at the <unit> level. ·         I.1.2.2 - remove the last bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <segment> level, rules must be applied to the <target> element within the scope of the <segment>. ·         I.1.2.3 – Exactly one of the following attributes: ·          isPresent ·         isNotPresent ·         Placeholder ·         stsrtsWith ·         endsWith ·         or a custom rule defined by elements from any namespace must be used in any one <rule> element.   And a change to the method of escaping quotes: …double quotation mark " (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and single quotation mark ‘ ( U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39;   If anybody has suggestions or objections to these changes, please let me know by 22 July. Otherwise, I will consider these issues resolved, and update the spec.   Thanks, Ryan          


  • 2.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 08:29
    Hi Ryan, > And a change to the method of escaping quotes: .double quotation mark " > (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and > single quotation mark ' (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39; I'm not sure I understand the escaping. None of the new proposed notation seem to require the use of '(' or ')'. So why we would need to even mention escaping? One should enter the content of the attributes values like any other value, using normal XML escaping syntax when appropriate. Or I'm missing something? Thanks, -yves


  • 3.  Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 08:58
    Agreed, no need for extra escaping with the new cleaner syntax Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Yves Savourel < ysavourel@enlaso.com > wrote: Hi Ryan, > And a change to the method of escaping quotes: .double quotation mark " > (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and > single quotation mark ' (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39; I'm not sure I understand the escaping. None of the new proposed notation seem to require the use of '(' or ')'. So why we would need to even mention escaping? One should enter the content of the attributes values like any other value, using normal XML escaping syntax when appropriate. Or I'm missing something? Thanks, -yves --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php


  • 4.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 15:09
    Hi David and Yves,   Can you please help me understand what you mean by “ using normal XML escaping syntax” ? If a user needs to specify a double or single quote, they will need to escape it according to XML specification 1.1 section 4.6 http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#sec-predefined-ent . For example isPresent=”&#34;”.   Thanks   From: Dr. David Filip [mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:57 AM To: Yves Savourel; Ryan King Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Agreed, no need for extra escaping with the new cleaner syntax Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie   On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Yves Savourel < ysavourel@enlaso.com > wrote: Hi Ryan, > And a change to the method of escaping quotes: .double quotation mark " > (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and > single quotation mark ' (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39; I'm not sure I understand the escaping. None of the new proposed notation seem to require the use of '(' or ')'. So why we would need to even mention escaping? One should enter the content of the attributes values like any other value, using normal XML escaping syntax when appropriate. Or I'm missing something? Thanks, -yves --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php  


  • 5.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 16:06
    Hi Ryan,   Yes, that’s why I meant with “normal XML escaping syntax”. Basically: we shouldn’t tell the user what to do. It’s an XML document they know how to write a double quote or a single one.   Before we had a XLIFF-Validation-module-specific syntax for literal ‘(‘, ‘)’ ‘”’, etc. but my understanding is that we don’t need it anymore because we don’t use any special characters like “()()” in the values.   -ys Ps: Sorry I couldn’t join the call I was in another meeting.     From: Ryan King [mailto:ryanki@microsoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:08 PM To: Dr. David Filip; Yves Savourel Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Hi David and Yves,   Can you please help me understand what you mean by “using normal XML escaping syntax” ? If a user needs to specify a double or single quote, they will need to escape it according to XML specification 1.1 section 4.6 http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#sec-predefined-ent . For example isPresent=”&#34;”.   Thanks   From: Dr. David Filip [ mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie ] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:57 AM To: Yves Savourel; Ryan King Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org ; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Agreed, no need for extra escaping with the new cleaner syntax Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie   On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Yves Savourel < ysavourel@enlaso.com > wrote: Hi Ryan, > And a change to the method of escaping quotes: .double quotation mark " > (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and > single quotation mark ' (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39; I'm not sure I understand the escaping. None of the new proposed notation seem to require the use of '(' or ')'. So why we would need to even mention escaping? One should enter the content of the attributes values like any other value, using normal XML escaping syntax when appropriate. Or I'm missing something? Thanks, -yves --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php  


  • 6.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 17:32
    OK, that makes sense. Thanks, Yves for the clarification. Consider that part of the proposal revoked.   From: Yves Savourel [mailto:ysavourel@enlaso.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:06 AM To: Ryan King; 'Dr. David Filip' Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Hi Ryan,   Yes, that’s why I meant with “normal XML escaping syntax”. Basically: we shouldn’t tell the user what to do. It’s an XML document they know how to write a double quote or a single one.   Before we had a XLIFF-Validation-module-specific syntax for literal ‘(‘, ‘)’ ‘”’, etc. but my understanding is that we don’t need it anymore because we don’t use any special characters like “()()” in the values.   -ys Ps: Sorry I couldn’t join the call I was in another meeting.     From: Ryan King [ mailto:ryanki@microsoft.com ] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:08 PM To: Dr. David Filip; Yves Savourel Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org ; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Hi David and Yves,   Can you please help me understand what you mean by “using normal XML escaping syntax” ? If a user needs to specify a double or single quote, they will need to escape it according to XML specification 1.1 section 4.6 http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#sec-predefined-ent . For example isPresent=”&#34;”.   Thanks   From: Dr. David Filip [ mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie ] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:57 AM To: Yves Savourel; Ryan King Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org ; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Agreed, no need for extra escaping with the new cleaner syntax Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie   On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Yves Savourel < ysavourel@enlaso.com > wrote: Hi Ryan, > And a change to the method of escaping quotes: .double quotation mark " > (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and > single quotation mark ' (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39; I'm not sure I understand the escaping. None of the new proposed notation seem to require the use of '(' or ')'. So why we would need to even mention escaping? One should enter the content of the attributes values like any other value, using normal XML escaping syntax when appropriate. Or I'm missing something? Thanks, -yves --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php  


  • 7.  Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 09:01
    Ryan, not sure about the new mechanism @placeholder, what is the use case and motivation for having it, it seems rather ad hoc.. What if you need to clone a placeholder, isn't this handled in core inlines? Cheers dF Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Ryan King < ryanki@microsoft.com > wrote: In an effort to simplify and clarify the Validation Module, we would like to propose the following changes in response to csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061. This table summarizes the changes that will need to be made to the module’s attributes that signify “rules”.   Current Proposal Rule Processing Requirements noLoc="World" isPresent="World" World is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(World)(1)"  isPresent="World" occurs="1" World is found in the target text exactly once. Value of occurs can be 1 or greater.  mustLoc="World" isNotPresent="World" World is not found in the target text. mustLoc="(World)(Welt)" isNotPresent="World" isPresent="Welt" World is not found in the target text. Welt is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(&#160;&#160;)(0)"  isNotPresent="&#160;&#160;" Two consecutive non-breaking spaces are not found in the target text. Placeholder="World" World is found in both source and target text the same number of times. startsWith="(” startsWith="(” Target text starts with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no". endsWith=")" endsWith=")" Target text ends with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no".   Additionally, the following changes to processing requirements:   ·         I.1.2.2 - second bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <group> level, rules must be applied to all <target> elements within the scope of <group>, except where overrides are specified in a nested <group> element , or at the <unit> level. ·         I.1.2.2 - remove the last bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <segment> level, rules must be applied to the <target> element within the scope of the <segment>. ·         I.1.2.3 – Exactly one of the following attributes: ·          isPresent ·         isNotPresent ·         Placeholder ·         stsrtsWith ·         endsWith ·         or a custom rule defined by elements from any namespace must be used in any one <rule> element.   And a change to the method of escaping quotes: …double quotation mark " (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and single quotation mark ‘ ( U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39;   If anybody has suggestions or objections to these changes, please let me know by 22 July. Otherwise, I will consider these issues resolved, and update the spec.   Thanks, Ryan          


  • 8.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-16-2013 15:27
    Hi David, I think maybe the use of the word “placeholder” is confusing. We have a validation internally that uses this moniker and I understand it overlaps with inline tag terminology. This rule is simply to enforce that a substring appears both in source and target the same amount of times. For example:   <source>Microsoft is a company. Microsoft provides services for its customers.</source> <target> Microsoft ist ein Unternehmen . Microsoft bietet Dienstleistungen für seine Kunden. </source> … <rule placeholder=”Microsoft”>   This would validate that Microsoft appears in both source and target the same number of times. Using the “placeholder” moniker was an attempt to use something shorter than “isPresentInSourceAndTarget” but I am open to other suggestions on what to call this rule.   Thanks, Ryan     From: Dr. David Filip [mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:00 AM To: Ryan King Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Ryan, not sure about the new mechanism @placeholder, what is the use case and motivation for having it, it seems rather ad hoc.. What if you need to clone a placeholder, isn't this handled in core inlines? Cheers dF Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie   On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Ryan King < ryanki@microsoft.com > wrote: In an effort to simplify and clarify the Validation Module, we would like to propose the following changes in response to csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061. This table summarizes the changes that will need to be made to the module’s attributes that signify “rules”.   Current Proposal Rule Processing Requirements noLoc="World" isPresent="World" World is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(World)(1)"  isPresent="World" occurs="1" World is found in the target text exactly once. Value of occurs can be 1 or greater.  mustLoc="World" isNotPresent="World" World is not found in the target text. mustLoc="(World)(Welt)" isNotPresent="World" isPresent="Welt" World is not found in the target text. Welt is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(&#160;&#160;)(0)"  isNotPresent="&#160;&#160;" Two consecutive non-breaking spaces are not found in the target text. Placeholder="World" World is found in both source and target text the same number of times. startsWith="(” startsWith="(” Target text starts with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no". endsWith=")" endsWith=")" Target text ends with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no".   Additionally, the following changes to processing requirements:   ·         I.1.2.2 - second bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <group> level, rules must be applied to all <target> elements within the scope of <group>, except where overrides are specified in a nested <group> element , or at the <unit> level. ·         I.1.2.2 - remove the last bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <segment> level, rules must be applied to the <target> element within the scope of the <segment>. ·         I.1.2.3 – Exactly one of the following attributes: ·          isPresent ·         isNotPresent ·         Placeholder ·         stsrtsWith ·         endsWith ·         or a custom rule defined by elements from any namespace must be used in any one <rule> element.   And a change to the method of escaping quotes: …double quotation mark " (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and single quotation mark ‘ (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39;   If anybody has suggestions or objections to these changes, please let me know by 22 July. Otherwise, I will consider these issues resolved, and update the spec.   Thanks, Ryan            


  • 9.  RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.

    Posted 07-29-2013 20:10
    Hi David, I just dropped the changes to you that I made due to this proposal. Can you please check them in for me and print out? Also Tom, can you update the schema?   Also, David, instead of using Placeholder, I opted to use the isPresent rule with the existsInSource attribute. So, for example: isPresent=”World” existsInSource=”yes” - World is found in both source and target text the same number of times.   Thanks, Ryan   From: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:xliff@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Ryan King Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 8:26 AM To: Dr. David Filip Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: RE: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Hi David, I think maybe the use of the word “placeholder” is confusing. We have a validation internally that uses this moniker and I understand it overlaps with inline tag terminology. This rule is simply to enforce that a substring appears both in source and target the same amount of times. For example:   <source>Microsoft is a company. Microsoft provides services for its customers.</source> <target> Microsoft ist ein Unternehmen . Microsoft bietet Dienstleistungen für seine Kunden. </source> … <rule placeholder=”Microsoft”>   This would validate that Microsoft appears in both source and target the same number of times. Using the “placeholder” moniker was an attempt to use something shorter than “isPresentInSourceAndTarget” but I am open to other suggestions on what to call this rule.   Thanks, Ryan     From: Dr. David Filip [ mailto:David.Filip@ul.ie ] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:00 AM To: Ryan King Cc: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org ; Kevin O'Donnell; Uwe Stahlschmidt; Alan Michael Subject: Re: [xliff] Call for dissent csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061 - Validation Module design changes proposal.   Ryan, not sure about the new mechanism @placeholder, what is the use case and motivation for having it, it seems rather ad hoc.. What if you need to clone a placeholder, isn't this handled in core inlines? Cheers dF Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC CNGL LT-Web CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie   On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Ryan King < ryanki@microsoft.com > wrote: In an effort to simplify and clarify the Validation Module, we would like to propose the following changes in response to csprd01 comments 033, 057, and 061. This table summarizes the changes that will need to be made to the module’s attributes that signify “rules”.   Current Proposal Rule Processing Requirements noLoc="World" isPresent="World" World is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(World)(1)"  isPresent="World" occurs="1" World is found in the target text exactly once. Value of occurs can be 1 or greater.  mustLoc="World" isNotPresent="World" World is not found in the target text. mustLoc="(World)(Welt)" isNotPresent="World" isPresent="Welt" World is not found in the target text. Welt is found in the target text at least once. occurences="(&#160;&#160;)(0)"  isNotPresent="&#160;&#160;" Two consecutive non-breaking spaces are not found in the target text. Placeholder="World" World is found in both source and target text the same number of times. startsWith="(” startsWith="(” Target text starts with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no". endsWith=")" endsWith=")" Target text ends with "(" and may or may not exists in source text for the rule to be valid based on the following attributes: exisitsInSource="yes" or exisitsInSource="no".   Additionally, the following changes to processing requirements:   ·         I.1.2.2 - second bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <group> level, rules must be applied to all <target> elements within the scope of <group>, except where overrides are specified in a nested <group> element , or at the <unit> level. ·         I.1.2.2 - remove the last bullet: When <validation> occurs at the <segment> level, rules must be applied to the <target> element within the scope of the <segment>. ·         I.1.2.3 – Exactly one of the following attributes: ·          isPresent ·         isNotPresent ·         Placeholder ·         stsrtsWith ·         endsWith ·         or a custom rule defined by elements from any namespace must be used in any one <rule> element.   And a change to the method of escaping quotes: …double quotation mark " (U+0022) must be escaped by using the predefined XML entity &#34; and single quotation mark ‘ (U+0027) by using the predefined XML entity &#39;   If anybody has suggestions or objections to these changes, please let me know by 22 July. Otherwise, I will consider these issues resolved, and update the spec.   Thanks, Ryan