OASIS Emergency Management TC

Just a reminder - There is Geo-GIS Subcommittee conference call tomorrow. 
The info is:
 
+1 512 
225 3050 
passcode:36429#
 
We will discuss the list of requirements I emailed to the TC a couple of 
weeks ago (August 28th)
 
Also, there is the way outstanding issue regarding allowing alternative 
coordinate reference systems. For example, the OGC is working with the Chinese 
standards community to have a number of OGC standards translated into Chinese. 
They require that all CRS examples be in Xian80 and not WGS84. This is because 
Xian80 is the China legal CRS and must be supported in any China standard 
dealing with geo.
 
Any questions, please let me know.
 
Regards
 
Carl Reed, PhD
CTO and Executive Director Specification 
Program
OGC
 
The OGC: Helping the World to Communicate Geographically
 
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"The important thing is not to stop questioning." -- Albert Einstein
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> Also, there is the way outstanding issue regarding allowing alternative coordinate reference systems. For example, the OGC is working with the Chinese standards community to have a number of OGC standards translated into Chinese. They require that all CRS examples be in Xian80 and not WGS84. This is because Xian80 is the China legal CRS and must be supported in any China standard dealing with geo.
> 

Regarding the CRS issue, a first question would be whether there is a need to support accuracy of less than 1 meter?  Has precision surfaced as a problem for any users?  For the chinese example, what is the actually legal requirement?  How do they support interoperability with other countries for things like shipping and air traffic data?  Don't they have to support WGS84 for civil aviation and satellite navigation?

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

Jacob -

Of course China uses GPS and deploys applications in which the WGS 84 CRS is 
used. However, as in the US - and most countries for that matter - many 
local, regional, and even national geo-applications use other geoids and 
related CRSs. In the US, I would guess the vast majority (all?) local 
governments use NAD 27/83 as the CRS of choice for many layers (cadastral, 
surveyed street centerlines etc). There is an interesting Datum 
Transformation diagram here 
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/aboutgps/documents/nad83.pdf

As to accuracy of less than one meter, well, for example Australian law 
mandates that cadastral data be good to well less than one meter. Would your 
property lines to be off by a meter? And talk to any oil company getting 
ready to drill a new well. Given the exacting requirements of directional 
drilling and the distances drilled, measuring the location (x,y and z) of 
the drill head to the most exacting accuracy possible is more than just 
important.

Precision is always an interesting issue, especially how to express 
precision in terms of a standard. Just ask the IETF community.

Regards

Carl



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacob Westfall" 

> Of course China uses GPS and deploys applications in which the WGS 84 CRS is 
> used. However, as in the US - and most countries for that matter - many 
> local, regional, and even national geo-applications use other geoids and 

I can certainly understand they may want to enforce a common CRS for all government data sources, surveying, engineering, transport, etc.  What I was interested in is how this chinese law/polcy accounts for interoperability between international systems and formats?

> mandates that cadastral data be good to well less than one meter. Would your 
> property lines to be off by a meter? And talk to any oil company getting 
> ready to drill a new well. Given the exacting requirements of directional 

Of course, that's why there are more accurate CRS's available.  With regards to Emergency Management needs though, is there a requirement for accuracy greater than 1 meter?  It would be interesting to hear if there are some identified use cases.

I'll try to attend the meeting but have missed past meetings because Friday's are usually packed for me.

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

EM use cases requiring high precision positioning accuracy include
seismic and other vibration sensors like volcanic warning systems.
Similarly sensors which can monitor the structural integrity of dams and
bridges (i.e. structural failure monitoring) typically need 1-5 cm
resolution. Hydrography applications for monitoring water levels
including flood levels and Tsunami warning would need <1m of altitude
resolution (remember most of the wave is below the waters surface until
it's too late).

-hans



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
From: Jacob Westfall [mailto:jake@jpw.biz] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:36 PM
To: emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [emergency] RE: Geo-GIS subcommittee call tomorrow.

> Of course China uses GPS and deploys applications in which the WGS 84
CRS is 
> used. However, as in the US - and most countries for that matter -
many 
> local, regional, and even national geo-applications use other geoids
and 

I can certainly understand they may want to enforce a common CRS for all
government data sources, surveying, engineering, transport, etc.  What I
was interested in is how this chinese law/polcy accounts for
interoperability between international systems and formats?

> mandates that cadastral data be good to well less than one meter.
Would your 
> property lines to be off by a meter? And talk to any oil company
getting 
> ready to drill a new well. Given the exacting requirements of
directional 

Of course, that's why there are more accurate CRS's available.  With
regards to Emergency Management needs though, is there a requirement for
accuracy greater than 1 meter?  It would be interesting to hear if there
are some identified use cases.

I'll try to attend the meeting but have missed past meetings because
Friday's are usually packed for me.

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

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> EM use cases requiring high precision positioning accuracy include

These are sensor applications where the sensor itself needs high precision accuracy in order to function (GPS receiver) and doesn't speak to the need for positional accuracy in emergency management messaging standards.  Certainly the sensor itself could send out reports that included highly precise positional data, but there are standards like SensorML that are already available to do that.  So while the SensorML could be an EDXL payload, would there be cases where the EDXL wrapper itself needed this level of high precision?

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

Quick note about 1 meter: yes, upcoming work on tracking firefighters 
and other key resources down to less than one meter x, y and z will 
require that.

Cheers,
Rex

Jacob Westfall wrote:
>> Of course China uses GPS and deploys applications in which the WGS 84 CRS is 
>> used. However, as in the US - and most countries for that matter - many 
>> local, regional, and even national geo-applications use other geoids and 
>>     
>
> I can certainly understand they may want to enforce a common CRS for all government data sources, surveying, engineering, transport, etc.  What I was interested in is how this chinese law/polcy accounts for interoperability between international systems and formats?
>
>   
>> mandates that cadastral data be good to well less than one meter. Would your 
>> property lines to be off by a meter? And talk to any oil company getting 
>> ready to drill a new well. Given the exacting requirements of directional 
>>     
>
> Of course, that's why there are more accurate CRS's available.  With regards to Emergency Management needs though, is there a requirement for accuracy greater than 1 meter?  It would be interesting to hear if there are some identified use cases.
>
> I'll try to attend the meeting but have missed past meetings because Friday's are usually packed for me.
>
>   


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670

Hi Jacob, Carl, All,

Since we're having a GIS SC meeting today in about 20 minutes, I'll wait 
for the discussion, but RE:CAPv1.2, we have to maintain the 1.x 
compatibility. Moving forward, we need to expedite getting CAP 2.0 
rolling with a full head of steam. There are a number of other efforts, 
as Carl notes, where we can help pull the ICT wagon in a good direction.

Cheers,
Rex

Carl Reed wrote:
> Jacob -
>
> Of course China uses GPS and deploys applications in which the WGS 84 
> CRS is used. However, as in the US - and most countries for that 
> matter - many local, regional, and even national geo-applications use 
> other geoids and related CRSs. In the US, I would guess the vast 
> majority (all?) local governments use NAD 27/83 as the CRS of choice 
> for many layers (cadastral, surveyed street centerlines etc). There is 
> an interesting Datum Transformation diagram here 
> http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/aboutgps/documents/nad83.pdf
>
> As to accuracy of less than one meter, well, for example Australian 
> law mandates that cadastral data be good to well less than one meter. 
> Would your property lines to be off by a meter? And talk to any oil 
> company getting ready to drill a new well. Given the exacting 
> requirements of directional drilling and the distances drilled, 
> measuring the location (x,y and z) of the drill head to the most 
> exacting accuracy possible is more than just important.
>
> Precision is always an interesting issue, especially how to express 
> precision in terms of a standard. Just ask the IETF community.
>
> Regards
>
> Carl
>
> 

                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                 Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Westfall"