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Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

  • 1.  Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

    Posted 09-28-2010 05:46
    
    
    
    
    


  • 2.  RE: [emergency-if] Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

    Posted 09-28-2010 16:52
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Hans, this may be relevant to your discussion.

    CAP-CP Rules Beta 0.4, which is about to be published to www.CAPAN.ca/CAP-CP, will read as follows:

    Description:

    CAP-CP requires a <geocode> value, and encourages the use of optional <polygon> and <circle> values. When <polygon> or <circle> values are present in an area block, the combination of <polygon> and <circle> values is the more accurate representation of the alert area. This is contrary to what is currently defined in CAP, which recognizes the area as the combination of the <geocode>, <polygon> and <circle> values.

    Notes: The area(s) associated with <geocode> are often much larger than the targeted alert area, resulting in over alerting. This rule as defined now supports a more accurate representation of the alert area, while also supporting CAP-CP’s mandatory inclusion of <geocode> in a CAP-CP message. System implementers that can support the more accurate location identification that comes with <polygon> and <circle> are encouraged to do so. Recipients that intend to process a CAP-CP message may choose to identify the alert area by the <polygon> and <circle> elements alone knowing that this does not represent anything less than the full intended alert area.

    Cheers,

    Doug Allport

    Executive Director

    Canadian Association for Public Alerting and Notification (CAPAN)

    Doug.Allport@CAPAN.ca

    (613) 271-1040 Tel

    (613) 271-6208 Fax

    (613) 294-4425 Blackberry

    www.CAPAN.ca

    From: Hans Jespersen [mailto:Hans.Jespersen@SolaceSystems.com]
    Sent: September-28-10 1:46 AM
    To: emergency-if@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: [emergency-if] Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

    Attendance: Hans Jespersen, Gary Ham, Rex Brooks

    Since we had light attendance and Gary had to leave the meeting early, we focused on exploring and enumerating all the potential options for item #15 on the Issues List.

    Item #15 is the requirement to allow multiple representations of a Target Area (for example both Polygon and LocCode) and to be able to specify precedence (an ordering) which indicates which representation is most accurate.

    Ways to do this include:

    1) Specify that the precedence be the “document order” in the XML text. – We would have to redefine the schema to remove the current sequence order restriction - [Gary] expressed concern that certain parsers reply on sequence order for efficiency (i.e SAX vs DOM parsers)

    2) Use an attribute directly in the tags (i.e. <polygon precedence=”true”> - This would require parsing all elements to find which are set to “true” which could confusingly be set twice or more.

    3) Use an attribute in <target area> (i.e. <targetArea most_accurate=”polygon”> - This would at least always be in same place and if it where not present, or ignored, it would match today’s behavior.

    4) Add a <MostAccurate> tag: ie:

          <TargetArea>

                <Polygon>

                      <MostAccurate>

                      ...

                </Polygon>

                <Circle>

                      ...

                </Circle>

          </TargetArea>

         

         

    5) Add explicit <primary> and <secondary> container elements

          <TargetArea>

                <PrimaryRepresentation>

    <Polygon>

                      ...

                      </Polygon>

                </PrimaryRepresentation>

                <SecondaryRepresentation>

                      <Circle>

                      ...

                      </Circle>

    <SecondaryRepresentation>          

          </TargetArea>

               

    6) Specify a set universal order of accuracy: i.e. <Polygon> is always the best representation, then <LocCode>, then <Circle>, then <BoundingBox>, etc.

          [Hans] expressed problems with any universal ordering because there are clear cases where the order would be different. For example when the target area is a state then the locCode is exact and the polygon is an approximation. When the target area is a plume, then the polygon is a best estimate and the locCodes are a poor approximation.

    Additional discussion points:

    [Gary] Expressed a need to continue to support unions of multiple target areas.

    [Gary] Thought that unions of different representation types should be supported, i.e. the target area is a <LocCode> plus a <Polygon>.

    --

    Hans Jespersen

    Principal Systems Engineer

    Solace Systems Inc.

    2051 Landings Drive, Mountain View, CA 94043

    Phone: (650) 924-2670

    hans.jespersen@solacesystems.com

    http://www.solacesystems.com



  • 3.  Re: [emergency-if] Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

    Posted 09-30-2010 18:59
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Interesting. This discussion parallels many of the discussions in the IETF on location, confidence of location elements, dereferencing, QoS and so forth. Might not simply adding a measure of quality to each element be a more general mechanism for expressing the accuracy/quality of any geo element? This is the approach the IETF is taking. There is also a defacto standard titled UnCertML for expressing uncertainty. This is being used in a variety of OGC standards as well as standards being developed in other communities. If each element has an expression of uncertainty, then the consuming application can them determine which representation it wishes to use. Assuming some apriori ordering will cause confusion and may be self-defeating.
     
    Cheers

    Carl
     

    Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:45 PM
    Subject: [emergency-if] Meeting Notes from last weeks IF meeting

    Attendance: , Gary Ham, Rex Brooks

    Since we had light attendance and had to leave the meeting early, we focused on exploring and enumerating all the potential options for item #15 on the Issues List.

    Item #15 is the requirement to allow multiple representations of a Target Area (for example both Polygon and LocCode) and to be able to specify precedence (an ordering) which indicates which representation is most accurate.

    Ways to do this include:

    1) Specify that the precedence be the “document order” in the XML text. – We would have to redefine the schema to remove the current sequence order restriction - [] expressed concern that certain parsers reply on sequence order for efficiency (i.e SAX vs DOM parsers)

    2) Use an attribute directly in the tags (i.e. <polygon precedence=”true”> - This would require parsing all elements to find which are set to “true” which could confusingly be set twice or more.

    3) Use an attribute in <target area> (i.e. <targetArea most_accurate=”polygon”> - This would at least always be in same place and if it where not present, or ignored, it would match today’s behavior.

    4) Add a <MostAccurate> tag: ie:

          <TargetArea>

                <Polygon>

                      <MostAccurate>

                      ...

                </Polygon>

                <Circle>

                      ...

                </Circle>

          </TargetArea>

         

         

    5) Add explicit <primary> and <secondary> container elements

          <TargetArea>

                <PrimaryRepresentation>

    <Polygon>

                      ...

                      </Polygon>

                </PrimaryRepresentation>

                <SecondaryRepresentation>

                      <Circle>

                      ...

                      </Circle>

    <SecondaryRepresentation>          

          </TargetArea>

               

    6) Specify a set universal order of accuracy: i.e. <Polygon> is always the best representation, then <LocCode>, then <Circle>, then <BoundingBox>, etc.

          [Hans] expressed problems with any universal ordering because there are clear cases where the order would be different. For example when the target area is a state then the locCode is exact and the polygon is an approximation. When the target area is a plume, then the polygon is a best estimate and the locCodes are a poor approximation.

    Additional discussion points:

    [] Expressed a need to continue to support unions of multiple target areas.

    [] Thought that unions of different representation types should be supported, i.e. the target area is a <LocCode> plus a <Polygon>.

    --

    Principal Systems Engineer

    Solace Systems Inc.

    Phone: (650) 924-2670

    hans.jespersen@solacesystems.com

    http://www.solacesystems.com