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Subject: Re: [office-accessibility] Re: [office] Table support for OpenDocumentPresentations
We keep encountering this same discussion,
over and over, in minor variants. The more I see us work on the spec,
the more urgently I believe we need to produce a non-normative but highly
authoritative Guide for ODF Implementers.If OASIS can have an ODF Adoption TC,
I'm sure it could also have an ODF Implementation TC devoted to producing
such a guide. Or, we could have an Implementation SC of the main
TC, if we wanted to keep it more closely aligned with the latest issues
regarding the spec. We could even have an Implementation SC of the
Adoption TC, on the grounds that the implementation advice is vital for
adoption, but the technical content would be so high that I think that
would be a poor choice. As a last resort, we could even do this from
outside OASIS entirely, though I think that would be the second to worst
possible alternative. (The worst, of course, would be what we are
doing now: Nothing.)At least twice a month, I think, I have
been seeing issues raised in either the TC or SC that come down to "this
isn't a spec issue, but it would be vital advice to implementers."
I think it's time to bite the bullet and make a plan to produce such
a guide. Any other thoughts? -- Nathaniel
Hi Rich,
I thought we'd discussed this - that these questions are entirely part
of the user interface in presentations that wrap around the ODF table
implementation.
I agree these are issues we have to work out with the folks implementing
tables in presentations in our office suites, but I don't see how that
impacts our XML encoding decision.
Regards,
Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> When considering tables in presentations please consider user agent
> issues.
>
> - Will the table area be clipped and require scrolling. In MSOffice
> that does not happen?
> - Has the group addressed all import/export issues?
> - Will a frame be rendered in the user agent if it is embedded?
> MSOffice does not. If we don't address this the layout will be a mess?
>
> We also need to ensure the author has the ability to define row and
> column headers as are defined in the table construct.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
> Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
> blog: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441
>
> "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
> I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the
> difference.", Frost
>
> Inactive hide details for Florian Reuter
> <Florian.Reuter@Sun.COM>Florian Reuter <Florian.Reuter@Sun.COM>
>
>
>
*Florian Reuter <Florian.Reuter@Sun.COM>*
>
>
05/09/2006 02:17 AM
>
>
>
> To
>
> office@lists.oasis-open.org, office-accessibility@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> cc
>
>
> Subject
>
> [office] Table support for OpenDocument Presentations
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to give a brief status description of the evaluation of
the
> table support for OpenDocument presentations.
>
> Currently I see three different ways of adding table support to
> OpenDocument specifications:
> a) "native" table support
> b) Embedded object based table support
> c) tables in text boxes
> d) Drawing object plus annotation based table support
>
> ad a)
> The "native" table support would have the advantage, that
tables are
> "first-class citizens" of OpenDocument presentations. An
example would be:
> <draw:frame>
> <table:table>
> ....
> </table:table>
> </draw:frame>
> The above encoding is closest to Open XML and would ensure rountrip.
> The disadvantage of the above solution is, that currently deployed
> reader would ignore the <table:table> element and thus tables
where
> missing in the document. This would require all vendors of OpenDocument
> processing applications to ship product patches.
>
> ad b)
> Encoding tables in OpenDocument presentations as "embedded objects"
> would be the best solution regarding backward compatibility. Encoding
as
> "embeeded object" means nothing else than "use OpenDocument
spreadsheet
> tables in presentations as embedded objects". An example is:
> <draw:frame>
> <draw:object xlink:href=""Link" to OpenDocument spreadsheet
table"
> xlink:type="simple" xlink:show="embed" xlink:actuate="onLoad"
/>
> </draw:frame>
> The disadvantage of this solution is, that tables in presentations
are
> no longer "first-class citizens" as they are e.g. in Open
XML.
>
> ad c)
> OpenDocument allows in its current version that tables can appear
within
> text boxes. However this currently not implemented in e.g.
> OpenOffice.org. For example:
> <draw:frame>
> <draw:text-box>
> <table:table>
> ..
> </table:table>
> </draw:frame>
> Here without any schema change table in presentations could be achieved.
>
> ad d) [suggested my Yue MA]
> Currently OpenDocument processing entities store tables in presentations
> as shapes, i.e. a table is "drawn", but the structure is
forgotten. By
> simply annotating this "drawn" tables with the table structure
> information both backward compatibility as well as accessibility needs
> could be satisfied.
> The disadvantage of this is, that OpenDocument would get a rather
> "unconventional" second table model.
>
> I would like to finish the investigation phase know and start dicussing
> the prefered solution.
>
> Looking forward for your comments.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Florian
>
>
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