OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

Per the discussion on today's con call about integrating the ITS locNote element and/or attribute into DITA, I think the available options are: 1. Use a specialization of foreign to hold the ITS elements as-is. This would provide full support for all of ITS markup at the cost of an additional level of wrapping, e.g.: <itsMarkup> <its:locNote>...</its:locNote> </itsMarkup> 2. Use <data> where the @name value is the ITS tag or attribute name: <data name="its:locNote">This is a localization node</data> This can be done today but has more syntantic distance from the real ITS markup. An obvious enhancement would be to create a domain that specializes from <data>, e.g. <its_locNote name="its:locNote">. This also raises the potential of introducing a commenting framework that would be parallel to <draft-comment>. 3. Allow at least the @its:locNote attribute as global attributes on all DITA elements. This would be easy to implement and would directly reflect part of the ITS markup. Because it's attributes it wouldn't affect any content models but would add a new namespace declaration, e.g.: <topic xmlns:its=" http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its: > ... <p its:locNote="This is a localization note">... ... </topic> 4. Define conventions and, ideally, a specialization of <draft-comment> for capturing localization notes: <draft-comment outputclass="its:locNote">This is a localization note</draft-comment> Which could be specialized to: <its_locNote>This is a localization note</its_locNote> Note that we have a pending 1.3 enhancement to allow draft-comment in more contexts. 5. Allow ITS elements directly. This would both break precendent of not having any non-DITA-defined elements directly-allowed and would be a major change to content models. Cheers, E. -- Eliot Kimber Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together" Main: 512.554.9368 www.rsicms.com www.rsuitecms.com Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press, http://xmlpress.net/publications/dita/practitioners-1/

Dear Friends, Based on Christian's response to the question about the use of variable substitutions, we had a discuss at the DITA TC today that is reflected in Eliot's note attached here. Best Practices 21 from the W3C ITS committee references the use of loc.note to explain to translators the purpose of the variable name (product name and so on). We would like to use loc.note in DITA for that purpose as well but we cannot simply refer to the its namespace. One question we had was a how translator tools display loc.note and whether our solution possibilities noted below would apply. No point in adding a DITA version of loc.note if the translator tools wouldn't be about to see the comments. Your help would be greatly appreciated. I'd also like to invite any member of the SC to join the discussion at the DITA TC to help us understand the usefulness of loc.note Best regards, JoAnn JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD President Comtech Services Inc. 710 Kipling Street, Suite 400 Denver, CO 80215 Joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com 303-232-7586 On 1/29/13 10:05 AM, "Eliot Kimber" <ekimber@rsicms.com> wrote: >Per the discussion on today's con call about integrating the ITS locNote >element and/or attribute into DITA, I think the available options are: > >1. Use a specialization of foreign to hold the ITS elements as-is. This >would provide full support for all of ITS markup at the cost of an >additional level of wrapping, e.g.: > ><itsMarkup> > <its:locNote>...</its:locNote> ></itsMarkup> > >2. Use <data> where the @name value is the ITS tag or attribute name: > ><data name="its:locNote">This is a localization node</data> > >This can be done today but has more syntantic distance from the real ITS >markup. An obvious enhancement would be to create a domain that >specializes >from <data>, e.g. <its_locNote name="its:locNote">. > >This also raises the potential of introducing a commenting framework that >would be parallel to <draft-comment>. > >3. Allow at least the @its:locNote attribute as global attributes on all >DITA elements. > >This would be easy to implement and would directly reflect part of the ITS >markup. Because it's attributes it wouldn't affect any content models but >would add a new namespace declaration, e.g.: > ><topic xmlns:its=" http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its: > > ... > <p its:locNote="This is a localization note">... > ... ></topic> > >4. Define conventions and, ideally, a specialization of <draft-comment> >for >capturing localization notes: > ><draft-comment outputclass="its:locNote">This is a localization >note</draft-comment> > >Which could be specialized to: > ><its_locNote>This is a localization note</its_locNote> > >Note that we have a pending 1.3 enhancement to allow draft-comment in more >contexts. > >5. Allow ITS elements directly. This would both break precendent of not >having any non-DITA-defined elements directly-allowed and would be a major >change to content models. > >Cheers, > >E. > >-- >Eliot Kimber >Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions >"Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together" >Main: 512.554.9368 >www.rsicms.com >www.rsuitecms.com >Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press, > http://xmlpress.net/publications/dita/practitioners-1/ > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >

Sounds good. I would imagine that locNote attribute would map onto the "note" in XLiff. Can we add it to the domain that has the translate attribute. Is your reading that it scopes to all content contained by the XML element node where it is attached? As much as I like namespaces, reusing a single or a small subset of elements/attributes from a namespace is less explicit than re-defining it in DITA. If we define it in DITA then it has our semantics - although these may not be far from the original semantics. This is unlike what HTML5 did with SVG where they stripped the namespace but made it clear that the semantics are intact and are defined outside of HTML5. For example: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#svg "To enable authors to use SVG tools that only accept SVG in its XML form, interactive HTML user agents are encouraged to provide a way to export any SVG fragment as an XML namespace-well-formed XML fragment." Jim >
Original Message----- > From: dita@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:dita@lists.oasis-open.org ] On Behalf > Of Eliot Kimber > Sent: January-29-13 9:05 AM > To: dita > Subject: [dita] [I18N] Integrating the W3C ITS locNote into DITA: Options > > Per the discussion on today's con call about integrating the ITS locNote > element and/or attribute into DITA, I think the available options are: > > 1. Use a specialization of foreign to hold the ITS elements as-is. This would > provide full support for all of ITS markup at the cost of an additional level of > wrapping, e.g.: > > <itsMarkup> > <its:locNote>...</its:locNote> > </itsMarkup> > > 2. Use <data> where the @name value is the ITS tag or attribute name: > > <data name="its:locNote">This is a localization node</data> > > This can be done today but has more syntantic distance from the real ITS > markup. An obvious enhancement would be to create a domain that > specializes from <data>, e.g. <its_locNote name="its:locNote">. > > This also raises the potential of introducing a commenting framework that > would be parallel to <draft-comment>. > > 3. Allow at least the @its:locNote attribute as global attributes on all DITA > elements. > > This would be easy to implement and would directly reflect part of the ITS > markup. Because it's attributes it wouldn't affect any content models but > would add a new namespace declaration, e.g.: > > <topic xmlns:its=" http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its: > > ... > <p its:locNote="This is a localization note">... > ... > </topic> > > 4. Define conventions and, ideally, a specialization of <draft-comment> for > capturing localization notes: > > <draft-comment outputclass="its:locNote">This is a localization note</draft- > comment> > > Which could be specialized to: > > <its_locNote>This is a localization note</its_locNote> > > Note that we have a pending 1.3 enhancement to allow draft-comment in > more contexts. > > 5. Allow ITS elements directly. This would both break precendent of not > having any non-DITA-defined elements directly-allowed and would be a > major change to content models. > > Cheers, > > E. > > -- > Eliot Kimber > Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions "Bringing Strategy, Content, > and Technology Together" > Main: 512.554.9368 > www.rsicms.com > www.rsuitecms.com > Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press, > http://xmlpress.net/publications/dita/practitioners-1/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis- > open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

Hi, sorry for reopening this older thread. But today I tried to integrate ITS 2.0 into DITA and found that it will be not that easy, especially if result should be conforming DITA specialization rules. Eliot told me that TC discussed this in past and it seems (if I haven't overlooked something in minutes https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/48436/minutes20130226.txt ) that there was no conclusion. Integrating ITS 2.0 into host vocabulary means adding dozen of attributes in ITS namespace to all elements and allowing three elements in ITS namespace in place where metadata are usually put. Those three elements can be put inside <foreign>, so this is solvable. Attributes are harder problem as DITA currently doesn't allow namespaced attributes in specializations. Is there any chance that for DITA 1.3 rules can be relaxed and foreign attributes could be allowed or even better ITS attributes can be added into standard DITA? Jirka On 29.1.2013 20:27, Jim Tivy wrote: > Sounds good. > > I would imagine that locNote attribute would map onto the "note" in XLiff. > Can we add it to the domain that has the translate attribute. Is your > reading that it scopes to all content contained by the XML element node > where it is attached? > > As much as I like namespaces, reusing a single or a small subset of > elements/attributes from a namespace is less explicit than re-defining it in > DITA. If we define it in DITA then it has our semantics - although these > may not be far from the original semantics. > > This is unlike what HTML5 did with SVG where they stripped the namespace but > made it clear that the semantics are intact and are defined outside of > HTML5. > > For example: > > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#svg > > "To enable authors to use SVG tools that only accept SVG in its XML form, > interactive HTML user agents are encouraged to provide a way to export any > SVG fragment as an XML namespace-well-formed XML fragment." > > Jim > >>
Original Message----- >> From: dita@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:dita@lists.oasis-open.org ] On > Behalf >> Of Eliot Kimber >> Sent: January-29-13 9:05 AM >> To: dita >> Subject: [dita] [I18N] Integrating the W3C ITS locNote into DITA: Options >> >> Per the discussion on today's con call about integrating the ITS locNote >> element and/or attribute into DITA, I think the available options are: >> >> 1. Use a specialization of foreign to hold the ITS elements as-is. This > would >> provide full support for all of ITS markup at the cost of an additional > level of >> wrapping, e.g.: >> >> <itsMarkup> >> <its:locNote>...</its:locNote> >> </itsMarkup> >> >> 2. Use <data> where the @name value is the ITS tag or attribute name: >> >> <data name="its:locNote">This is a localization node</data> >> >> This can be done today but has more syntantic distance from the real ITS >> markup. An obvious enhancement would be to create a domain that >> specializes from <data>, e.g. <its_locNote name="its:locNote">. >> >> This also raises the potential of introducing a commenting framework that >> would be parallel to <draft-comment>. >> >> 3. Allow at least the @its:locNote attribute as global attributes on all > DITA >> elements. >> >> This would be easy to implement and would directly reflect part of the ITS >> markup. Because it's attributes it wouldn't affect any content models but >> would add a new namespace declaration, e.g.: >> >> <topic xmlns:its=" http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its: > >> ... >> <p its:locNote="This is a localization note">... >> ... >> </topic> >> >> 4. Define conventions and, ideally, a specialization of <draft-comment> > for >> capturing localization notes: >> >> <draft-comment outputclass="its:locNote">This is a localization > note</draft- >> comment> >> >> Which could be specialized to: >> >> <its_locNote>This is a localization note</its_locNote> >> >> Note that we have a pending 1.3 enhancement to allow draft-comment in >> more contexts. >> >> 5. Allow ITS elements directly. This would both break precendent of not >> having any non-DITA-defined elements directly-allowed and would be a >> major change to content models. >> >> Cheers, >> >> E. >> >> -- >> Eliot Kimber >> Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions "Bringing Strategy, > Content, >> and Technology Together" >> Main: 512.554.9368 >> www.rsicms.com >> www.rsuitecms.com >> Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press, >> http://xmlpress.net/publications/dita/practitioners-1/ >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis- >> open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jirka Kosek e-mail: jirka@kosek.cz http://xmlguru.cz ------------------------------------------------------------------ Professional XML consulting and training services DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing ------------------------------------------------------------------ OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO JTC1/SC34 rep. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Bringing you XML Prague conference http://xmlprague.cz ------------------------------------------------------------------ Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Hi, Jirka. Yesterday the DITA TC voted to NOT consider any new proposals for DITA 1.3. Yes, the DITA TC is aware that integrating ITS 2.0 is not possible given the current design. Perhaps integrating ITS 2.0 would be more possible for DITA 2.0 ... Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting Co-chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/6/2013 3:29 PM, Jirka Kosek wrote: Hi, sorry for reopening this older thread. But today I tried to integrate ITS 2.0 into DITA and found that it will be not that easy, especially if result should be conforming DITA specialization rules. Eliot told me that TC discussed this in past and it seems (if I haven't overlooked something in minutes https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/48436/minutes20130226.txt ) that there was no conclusion. Integrating ITS 2.0 into host vocabulary means adding dozen of attributes in ITS namespace to all elements and allowing three elements in ITS namespace in place where metadata are usually put. Those three elements can be put inside <foreign>, so this is solvable. Attributes are harder problem as DITA currently doesn't allow namespaced attributes in specializations. Is there any chance that for DITA 1.3 rules can be relaxed and foreign attributes could be allowed or even better ITS attributes can be added into standard DITA? Jirka On 29.1.2013 20:27, Jim Tivy wrote: Sounds good. I would imagine that locNote attribute would map onto the note in XLiff. Can we add it to the domain that has the translate attribute. Is your reading that it scopes to all content contained by the XML element node where it is attached? As much as I like namespaces, reusing a single or a small subset of elements/attributes from a namespace is less explicit than re-defining it in DITA. If we define it in DITA then it has our semantics - although these may not be far from the original semantics. This is unlike what HTML5 did with SVG where they stripped the namespace but made it clear that the semantics are intact and are defined outside of HTML5. For example: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#svg To enable authors to use SVG tools that only accept SVG in its XML form, interactive HTML user agents are encouraged to provide a way to export any SVG fragment as an XML namespace-well-formed XML fragment. Jim
Original Message----- From: dita@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:dita@lists.oasis-open.org ] On Behalf Of Eliot Kimber Sent: January-29-13 9:05 AM To: dita Subject: [dita] [I18N] Integrating the W3C ITS locNote into DITA: Options Per the discussion on today's con call about integrating the ITS locNote element and/or attribute into DITA, I think the available options are: 1. Use a specialization of foreign to hold the ITS elements as-is. This would provide full support for all of ITS markup at the cost of an additional level of wrapping, e.g.: <itsMarkup> <its:locNote>...</its:locNote> </itsMarkup> 2. Use <data> where the @name value is the ITS tag or attribute name: <data name= its:locNote >This is a localization node</data> This can be done today but has more syntantic distance from the real ITS markup. An obvious enhancement would be to create a domain that specializes from <data>, e.g. <its_locNote name= its:locNote >. This also raises the potential of introducing a commenting framework that would be parallel to <draft-comment>. 3. Allow at least the @its:locNote attribute as global attributes on all DITA elements. This would be easy to implement and would directly reflect part of the ITS markup. Because it's attributes it wouldn't affect any content models but would add a new namespace declaration, e.g.: <topic xmlns:its= http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its :> ... <p its:locNote= This is a localization note >... ... </topic> 4. Define conventions and, ideally, a specialization of <draft-comment> for capturing localization notes: <draft-comment outputclass= its:locNote >This is a localization note</draft- comment> Which could be specialized to: <its_locNote>This is a localization note</its_locNote> Note that we have a pending 1.3 enhancement to allow draft-comment in more contexts. 5. Allow ITS elements directly. This would both break precendent of not having any non-DITA-defined elements directly-allowed and would be a major change to content models. Cheers, E. -- Eliot Kimber Senior Solutions Architect, RSI Content Solutions Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together Main: 512.554.9368 www.rsicms.com www.rsuitecms.com Book: DITA For Practitioners, from XML Press, http://xmlpress.net/publications/dita/practitioners-1/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis - open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php