OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

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Conformance Clauses and NVDL

  • 1.  Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 09-26-2008 10:13
    Dear TC members,
    
    one of the action items we have to address before we can complete our
    work on ODF 1.2 is a rework of the conformance clause section. This is
    necessary to meet the requirements of the current OASIS TC process, 
    which has been revised since ODF 1.1 was approved.
    
    I have uploaded a proposal for reworked conformance clauses here:
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29454/conformance-definition-proposal.odt
    
    Actually, the document contains multiple variants. What I did was to
    take the ODF 1.1 conformance clauses, that I then reworked in multiple
    steps. I call these iterations in the document.
    
    The first iteration more or less reformulates what we had so far, but
    aims to change the conformance definitions itself as little as possible.
    
    The 2nd and 3rd iterations aim to simplify the conformance definition by
    defining less variants and by omitting a few (very few) requirements.
    
    My personal favorite is the third iteration, and I would like to use
    that as basis for our discussion. What I'm particular interested in is
    whether you think that this goes into the right direction, and which of
    the things I omitted compared to first and second iteration should be
    re-introduced. A soon as I know that my proposal goes into the right 
    direction, I will move it into the Wiki.
    
    On another but not unrelated topic: I would like propose that
    we use NVDL for the inclusion of the MathML and XForms schemas. This
    on the one hand would improve the ability to verify these parts of ODF
    documents (right now, everything is allowed within an embedded math
    object or an XForms model, what means that these parts are never
    validated). But using NVDL would further resolve the issues we currently
    have with RNG DTD compatibility. We may create a schema that itself is
    DTD compatible together with a NVDL script that processes these parts of
    the schema where we currently allow any content.
    
    I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    
    It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    using NVDL would look like.
    
    The use of NVDL requires a few adaptations of the schema, and there is a
    dependency from the conformance clauses (and vice versa): If we still
    want to differ between strict and non-strict documents, then we should
    define that with the help of two NVDL scripts rather than with two
    schemas. For that reason, I'm interested in knowing what the revised
    conformance clauses will be before working on the details of the NVDL
    script.
    
    One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    developing the script is welcome.
    
    Best regards
    
    Michael
    
    
    -- 
    Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
    StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
    Sun Microsystems GmbH             Nagelsweg 55
    D-20097 Hamburg, Germany          michael.brauer@sun.com
    http://sun.com/staroffice         +49 40 23646 500
    http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
    
    Sitz der Gesellschaft: Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1,
    	   D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
    Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB 161028
    Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer
    Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering
    
    
    


  • 2.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-03-2008 14:34
    Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    
    > I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    > 
    > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    > 
    > It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    > using NVDL would look like.
    ...
    > One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    > developing the script is welcome.
    
    Hi Michael,
    
    I haven't had enough time to study your NVDL script and conformance
    proposal in detail. But I think that moving to NVDL is right approach.
    
    So far, I have noticed one problem in NVDL script. Instead of:
    
    
    
    you should use
    
    
    
    (and similar change for XForms)
    This will validate MathML fragments against MathML schema, but at the
    same time MathML fragment will stay in its place and will be validated
    against ODF RELAX NG schema which defines where MathML fragments can
    appear. Without 


  • 3.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-07-2008 13:41
    Hi Jirka,
    
    On 10/03/08 16:37, Jirka Kosek wrote:
    > Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    > 
    >> I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    >>
    >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    >>
    >> It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    >> using NVDL would look like.
    > ...
    >> One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    >> developing the script is welcome.
    > 
    > Hi Michael,
    > 
    > I haven't had enough time to study your NVDL script and conformance
    > proposal in detail. But I think that moving to NVDL is right approach.
    > 
    > So far, I have noticed one problem in NVDL script. Instead of:
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > you should use
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > (and similar change for XForms)
    > This will validate MathML fragments against MathML schema, but at the
    > same time MathML fragment will stay in its place and will be validated
    > against ODF RELAX NG schema which defines where MathML fragments can
    > appear. Without 


  • 4.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-08-2008 10:31
    Dear TC members,
    
    I have integrated below thoughts into a fourth iteration of the 
    conformance clause proposal:
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29584/conformance-definition-proposal-v2.odt
    
    I have further created a Proposal Wiki page for the proposal:
    
    http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Conformance
    
    I would like to discuss this proposal in the next call.
    
    Please note that I did not add anything related to NVDL to the 
    conformance clauses so far. The use of NVDL would not effect the 
    requirements a conforming document must meet, but we would only state 
    them in NVDL scripts rather than as text. And of cause we would 
    reference NVDL scripts rather than Relax-NG schemas in the conformance 
    clauses.
    
    I will submit a separate proposal regarding NVDL when we have agreed on 
    the content of the conformance clauses itself.
    
    Best regards
    
    Michael
    
    
    
    
    
    On 07.10.08 15:43, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    > Hi Jirka,
    > 
    > On 10/03/08 16:37, Jirka Kosek wrote:
    >> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    >>>
    >>> It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    >>> using NVDL would look like.
    >> ...
    >>> One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    >>> developing the script is welcome.
    >>
    >> Hi Michael,
    >>
    >> I haven't had enough time to study your NVDL script and conformance
    >> proposal in detail. But I think that moving to NVDL is right approach.
    >>
    >> So far, I have noticed one problem in NVDL script. Instead of:
    >>
    >> 
    >>
    >> you should use
    >>
    >> 
    >>
    >> (and similar change for XForms)
    >> This will validate MathML fragments against MathML schema, but at the
    >> same time MathML fragment will stay in its place and will be validated
    >> against ODF RELAX NG schema which defines where MathML fragments can
    >> appear. Without 


  • 5.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-13-2008 13:33
    Hi Michael,
    
    On 10/08/08 12:34, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    > Dear TC members,
    > 
    > I have integrated below thoughts into a fourth iteration of the 
    > conformance clause proposal:
    > 
    > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29584/conformance-definition-proposal-v2.odt 
    > 
    > 
    > I have further created a Proposal Wiki page for the proposal:
    > 
    > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Conformance
    > 
    > I would like to discuss this proposal in the next call.
    > 
    
    One remark from my side so far:
    - Replace term "Strictly Conforming OpenDocument documents" by 
    "Conforming OpenDocument documents" from paragraph numbered (G1.2) in 
    third and fourth iteration.
    
    Regards, Oliver.
    
    -- 
    =======================================================================
    Sun Microsystems GmbH    Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
    Nagelsweg 55             Software Engineer - OpenOffice.org/StarOffice
    20097 Hamburg
    Germany                  Fax:   (+49 40) 23 646 955
    http://www.sun.de        mailto:oliver-rainer.wittmann@sun.com
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sitz der Gesellschaft:
    Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
    Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB 161028
    Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer
    Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering
    
    =======================================================================
    Oliver-Rainer Wittmann (od) - OpenOffice.org Writer
    OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
    


  • 6.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-22-2008 13:16
    Hi Oliver,
    
    On 10/13/08 15:36, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann - Software Engineer - Sun 
    Microsystems wrote:
    
    > One remark from my side so far:
    > - Replace term "Strictly Conforming OpenDocument documents" by 
    > "Conforming OpenDocument documents" from paragraph numbered (G1.2) in 
    > third and fourth iteration.
    
    Thanks. I have changed that. The new version is at
    
    http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29753/conformance-definition-proposal.odt
    
    Michael
    
    
    -- 
    Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
    StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
    Sun Microsystems GmbH             Nagelsweg 55
    D-20097 Hamburg, Germany          michael.brauer@sun.com
    http://sun.com/staroffice         +49 40 23646 500
    http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
    
    Sitz der Gesellschaft: Sun Microsystems GmbH, Sonnenallee 1,
    	   D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
    Amtsgericht Muenchen: HRB 161028
    Geschaeftsfuehrer: Thomas Schroeder, Wolfgang Engels, Dr. Roland Boemer
    Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: Martin Haering
    


  • 7.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-13-2008 13:46
    Michael,
    
    Just a comment on the usage of "loosely."
    
    If we are going to enumerate in detail conformance (a good idea) then 
    why not simply name levels/stages of conformance?
    
    I suppose "loosely" as written serves that function but semantically I 
    wonder if it carries more baggage than you intend.
    
    As opposed to stage/level 1 conformance is...., stage/level 2 
    conformance is...., etc.
    
    Hope you are having a great day!
    
    Patrick
    
    Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    > Dear TC members,
    >
    > I have integrated below thoughts into a fourth iteration of the 
    > conformance clause proposal:
    >
    > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29584/conformance-definition-proposal-v2.odt 
    >
    >
    > I have further created a Proposal Wiki page for the proposal:
    >
    > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Conformance
    >
    > I would like to discuss this proposal in the next call.
    >
    > Please note that I did not add anything related to NVDL to the 
    > conformance clauses so far. The use of NVDL would not effect the 
    > requirements a conforming document must meet, but we would only state 
    > them in NVDL scripts rather than as text. And of cause we would 
    > reference NVDL scripts rather than Relax-NG schemas in the conformance 
    > clauses.
    >
    > I will submit a separate proposal regarding NVDL when we have agreed 
    > on the content of the conformance clauses itself.
    >
    > Best regards
    >
    > Michael
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On 07.10.08 15:43, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >> Hi Jirka,
    >>
    >> On 10/03/08 16:37, Jirka Kosek wrote:
    >>> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    >>>>
    >>>> It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    >>>> using NVDL would look like.
    >>> ...
    >>>> One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    >>>> developing the script is welcome.
    >>>
    >>> Hi Michael,
    >>>
    >>> I haven't had enough time to study your NVDL script and conformance
    >>> proposal in detail. But I think that moving to NVDL is right approach.
    >>>
    >>> So far, I have noticed one problem in NVDL script. Instead of:
    >>>
    >>> 
    >>>
    >>> you should use
    >>>
    >>> 
    >>>
    >>> (and similar change for XForms)
    >>> This will validate MathML fragments against MathML schema, but at the
    >>> same time MathML fragment will stay in its place and will be validated
    >>> against ODF RELAX NG schema which defines where MathML fragments can
    >>> appear. Without 


  • 8.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-22-2008 13:13
    Patrick,
    
    "loosely conforming" may be a bad term, but "level 1 conformance", 
    "level 2 conformance" implies to me that there are different feature 
    sets or the like that an ODF application my implement. That is not the 
    case. There is only the case that a document may include only elements 
    and attributes defined by ODF itself (that is a conforming document), or 
    may contains extensions (that is a strictly conforming document).
    
    Anyway, that is just the name. I'm fine with naming the individual 
    conformance types differently if there is a consensus that other names 
    may be more appropriate. What is more important to me at the moment is 
    whether the proposed clauses themselves are okay.
    
    Michael
    
    On 10/13/08 15:46, Patrick Durusau wrote:
    > Michael,
    > 
    > Just a comment on the usage of "loosely."
    > 
    > If we are going to enumerate in detail conformance (a good idea) then 
    > why not simply name levels/stages of conformance?
    > 
    > I suppose "loosely" as written serves that function but semantically I 
    > wonder if it carries more baggage than you intend.
    > 
    > As opposed to stage/level 1 conformance is...., stage/level 2 
    > conformance is...., etc.
    > 
    > Hope you are having a great day!
    > 
    > Patrick
    > 
    > Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >> Dear TC members,
    >>
    >> I have integrated below thoughts into a fourth iteration of the 
    >> conformance clause proposal:
    >>
    >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29584/conformance-definition-proposal-v2.odt 
    >>
    >>
    >> I have further created a Proposal Wiki page for the proposal:
    >>
    >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/Conformance
    >>
    >> I would like to discuss this proposal in the next call.
    >>
    >> Please note that I did not add anything related to NVDL to the 
    >> conformance clauses so far. The use of NVDL would not effect the 
    >> requirements a conforming document must meet, but we would only state 
    >> them in NVDL scripts rather than as text. And of cause we would 
    >> reference NVDL scripts rather than Relax-NG schemas in the conformance 
    >> clauses.
    >>
    >> I will submit a separate proposal regarding NVDL when we have agreed 
    >> on the content of the conformance clauses itself.
    >>
    >> Best regards
    >>
    >> Michael
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On 07.10.08 15:43, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >>> Hi Jirka,
    >>>
    >>> On 10/03/08 16:37, Jirka Kosek wrote:
    >>>> Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I have uploaded a first NVDL script here:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/29455/odf.nvdl
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It probably requires some more work, but it shows already what
    >>>>> using NVDL would look like.
    >>>> ...
    >>>>> One last remark: NVDL is new to me. So, any support with further
    >>>>> developing the script is welcome.
    >>>>
    >>>> Hi Michael,
    >>>>
    >>>> I haven't had enough time to study your NVDL script and conformance
    >>>> proposal in detail. But I think that moving to NVDL is right approach.
    >>>>
    >>>> So far, I have noticed one problem in NVDL script. Instead of:
    >>>>
    >>>> 
    >>>>
    >>>> you should use
    >>>>
    >>>> 
    >>>>
    >>>> (and similar change for XForms)
    >>>> This will validate MathML fragments against MathML schema, but at the
    >>>> same time MathML fragment will stay in its place and will be validated
    >>>> against ODF RELAX NG schema which defines where MathML fragments can
    >>>> appear. Without 


  • 9.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-20-2008 17:04
    Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    
    > Thanks for this hint. You are right. The current script allows MathML
    > everywhere. I'm not sure if an 


  • 10.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-24-2008 13:48
    Hi Jirka,
    
    On 10/20/08 06:46 PM, Jirka Kosek wrote:
    > Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    > 
    >> Thanks for this hint. You are right. The current script allows MathML
    >> everywhere. I'm not sure if an 


  • 11.  Re: [office] Conformance Clauses and NVDL

    Posted 10-26-2008 17:49
    Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
    
    > If we could really exclude namespaces we are defining ourselves then
    > this would be a solution. But with ODF 1.2 we have introduced xml:id,
    > and we can't exclude this attribute within XForms model content.
    
    My proposal was not excluding any attributes. It has removed ODF
    elements from "any" pattern used in extensibility points. By doing this
    you are preventing conflicting ID types situation.
    
    The only problem can be that you might want allow ODF elements inside
    XForms model but you can explicitly add those elements to special "any"
    pattern used only for XForms model.
    
    >> This feature is considered for future versions of NVDL. If there is
    >> demand for it from ODF this can accelerate adoption I think. Some NVDL
    >> validators provide this functionality as an extension, e.g.:
    >> http://jnvdl.sourceforge.net/extensions.html#extensions-usewhen
    > 
    > Thanks. I didn't know that. Anyway, using this feature would only be an
    > option if it would exist in NVDL already today or in the very near
    > future. Do you when an NVDL standard will be available that does include
    > this feature?
    
    No. There is not concrete proposal for extending NVDL on the table yet
    mainly because there is constraint that such feature should not break
    streamability of NVDL validation. And it is not easy to find streamable
    XPath subset which will not be too limited.
    
    > The NVDL script provided in this document checks whether elements and
    > attributes from the markup compatibility namespace are syntactically
    > correct. But it is my understanding that it does not consider its
    > semantics. That means that is does not automatically attaches the
    > content of an element if its name appears in the value of an
    > ProcessContent attribute. It's my understanding that this still requires
    > an NVDL script that is tailored to the extension elements that are used.
    
    I was talking about MCEs because they are much flexible and powerful
    mechanism for handling extensibility then current ODF approach. Of
    course if you want to validate extension elements you have to provide
    tailored schema for them.
    
    				Jirka
    
    -- 
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