OASIS Member Discuss

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  • 1.  RE: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributed VCS

    Posted 04-09-2010 17:16
    Farrukh,
     
    I must confess svn is my go-to solution - and I cannot live without tortoisesvn client for Windows - using it daily.
     
    Is there a similar solution for Mercurial or git VCS?  If there's something better - I'm definitely interested in looking into it!  I'm familiar with some svn limitations.
     
    You are indeed correct that it had escaped my attention that OASIS now has svn - and most definitely this is something now as a priority to facilitate specification work - so I will look into this soonest.
     
    Thanks, DW
     
     



  • 2.  Re: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributedVCS

    Posted 04-09-2010 17:46
    
    
      
    
    
    Hi David,

    There are *more* clients on *more* platforms for mercurial that are *better* than *any* clients on *any* platform for svn:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial#Related_software

    As for tortoisesvn you should check out:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TortoiseHg

    There is really no good argument I have seen on why one should stick with svn. Even inertia does not count since mercurial's ConvertExtension can convert from most legacy VCS including svn seamlessly while preserving *all* history of *all* branches.

      http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ConvertExtension

    Try converting to mercurial. IMHO, you will be very glad you did.


    On 04/09/2010 01:15 PM, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:
    20100409101542.dc066b1d4d2e0a1a65719ae85a8071e6.a004bd83ef.wbe@email.secureserver.net" type="cite">
    Farrukh,
     
    I must confess svn is my go-to solution - and I cannot live without tortoisesvn client for Windows - using it daily.
     
    Is there a similar solution for Mercurial or git VCS?  If there's something better - I'm definitely interested in looking into it!  I'm familiar with some svn limitations.
     
    You are indeed correct that it had escaped my attention that OASIS now has svn - and most definitely this is something now as a priority to facilitate specification work - so I will look into this soonest.
     
    Thanks, DW
     
     



    -- 
    Regards,
    Farrukh
    
    Web: http://www.wellfleetsoftware.com
    
    


  • 3.  RE: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributedVCS

    Posted 04-09-2010 19:10
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    “There is really no good argument I have seen on why one should stick with svn.”

    Except for the cost of migration, which could be considerable given that the OASIS IT infrastructure is in the process of a major overhaul. Sometimes the best is the enemy of the good – in the current circumstances, I really do think you would need to explain the specific and measurable advantages over the current system and/or the dangers of staying with same…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    (Speaking as an ordinary OASIS participant and not on behalf of the Board)

    From: Farrukh Najmi [mailto:farrukh@wellfleetsoftware.com]
    Sent: Fri, 09 April 2010 10:46
    To: David RR Webber (XML)
    Cc: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: Re: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributed VCS

    Hi David,

    There are *more* clients on *more* platforms for mercurial that are *better* than *any* clients on *any* platform for svn:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial#Related_software

    As for tortoisesvn you should check out:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TortoiseHg

    There is really no good argument I have seen on why one should stick with svn. Even inertia does not count since mercurial's ConvertExtension can convert from most legacy VCS including svn seamlessly while preserving *all* history of *all* branches.

      http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ConvertExtension

    Try converting to mercurial. IMHO, you will be very glad you did.


    On 04/09/2010 01:15 PM, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:

    Farrukh,

     

    I must confess svn is my go-to solution - and I cannot live without tortoisesvn client for Windows - using it daily.

     

    Is there a similar solution for Mercurial or git VCS?  If there's something better - I'm definitely interested in looking into it!  I'm familiar with some svn limitations.

     

    You are indeed correct that it had escaped my attention that OASIS now has svn - and most definitely this is something now as a priority to facilitate specification work - so I will look into this soonest.

     

    Thanks, DW

     

     





    -- 
    Regards,
    Farrukh
    Web: http://www.wellfleetsoftware.com


  • 4.  Re: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributedVCS

    Posted 04-09-2010 20:12

    I have sent a link on advantages earlier:

      http://hginit.com/index.html

    As for the cost of migration, I would need to know what is the current investment by OASIS. From an install base standpoint I am not aware of any TCs that have started using svn (there may be a limited few). From an infrastructure standpoint the main issue is integration with OASIS identity management. If someone can tell me what its based on I can try and offer an assessment of migration cost.

    I have a bit of history with this sort of request and OASIS. I suggested they offer a wiki long time back and after much deliberation MoinMoin Wiki was provided (not one that I had suggested).

    I suggested they offer JIRA for issue tracking and they thought it would be too much work. So the RegRep TC stood up our own external JIRA. Within days of that external JIRA being setup OASIS offered every TC a JIRA.

    I suggested they offer svn several years back. I am glad they offer it now but times have changed and items have shifted during flight.

    I am hoping that we could avoid that sort of experience again. SVN is basically a dead or dying tool and to get invested in it now is of dubious merit in my opinion.

    Is there any one else besides me who sees the value of OASIS offering mercurial or git instead of or in addition to svn?
    If so now would be a good time to be heard.

    Thanks.

    On 04/09/2010 03:08 PM, Peter F Brown (Pensive) wrote:
    CCFAAA135DF6554F92BACD35A80653D705DDCB3D89@IE2RD2XVS031.red002.local" type="cite">

    “There is really no good argument I have seen on why one should stick with svn.”

    Except for the cost of migration, which could be considerable given that the OASIS IT infrastructure is in the process of a major overhaul. Sometimes the best is the enemy of the good – in the current circumstances, I really do think you would need to explain the specific and measurable advantages over the current system and/or the dangers of staying with same…

    Cheers,

    Peter

    (Speaking as an ordinary OASIS participant and not on behalf of the Board)

    From: Farrukh Najmi [mailto:farrukh@wellfleetsoftware.com]
    Sent: Fri, 09 April 2010 10:46
    To: David RR Webber (XML)
    Cc: oasis-member-discuss@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: Re: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributed VCS

    Hi David,

    There are *more* clients on *more* platforms for mercurial that are *better* than *any* clients on *any* platform for svn:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial#Related_software

    As for tortoisesvn you should check out:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TortoiseHg

    There is really no good argument I have seen on why one should stick with svn. Even inertia does not count since mercurial's ConvertExtension can convert from most legacy VCS including svn seamlessly while preserving *all* history of *all* branches.

      http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ConvertExtension

    Try converting to mercurial. IMHO, you will be very glad you did.


    On 04/09/2010 01:15 PM, David RR Webber (XML) wrote:

    Farrukh,

     

    I must confess svn is my go-to solution - and I cannot live without tortoisesvn client for Windows - using it daily.

     

    Is there a similar solution for Mercurial or git VCS?  If there's something better - I'm definitely interested in looking into it!  I'm familiar with some svn limitations.

     

    You are indeed correct that it had escaped my attention that OASIS now has svn - and most definitely this is something now as a priority to facilitate specification work - so I will look into this soonest.

     

    Thanks, DW

     

     





    -- 
    Regards,
    Farrukh
    
      
    Web: http://www.wellfleetsoftware.com
    
      


    -- 
    Regards,
    Farrukh
    
    Web: http://www.wellfleetsoftware.com
    
    


  • 5.  RE: [oasis-member-discuss] Request for mercurial or git distributed VCS

    Posted 04-09-2010 22:04
    I think this discussion is at the wrong level.  Distributed version control systems are becoming very appealing for certain kinds of projects.  The decentralized nature of use is particularly useful so long as the conditions are right.
     
    Posturing about whether SVN is going away and that's reason to abandon it in favor of a new shiny thing doesn't strike me as very constructive, however.  
    
    I think the more-important questions are about the use cases and constraints on git or Mercurial in a way that satisfies the governance, transparency, and auditability requirements for the operation of OASIS Technical Committees.
    
    By the way, the OASIS OIC TC uses the SVN repository.  We need more practice with it and a work flow that leads to "official" artifacts in an auditable and back-traceable way.  I have no information that suggests the SVN repository is unsatisfactory.  I am concerned about what might be broken by going to a rather different versioning methodology unless one can be more forthcoming about specific, tangible benefits.
    
    In the case of the current support for SVN and any replacement technology, I think there are some immediate matters to discuss:
    
     1. How are commits made to the "official" repository?
    
     2. Who has to resolve merging and conflicts that arise in merging?  Who can?
    
     3. How are notifications made of changes and commits to the TC version-control repository?
    
     4. Is a web view and the ability to refer to versioned items (and their specific versions) still available, and by what means?  Are there durable URLs that can be employed?
    
     5. Can the repository be viewed and navigated using a stock web browser?
    
     6. With regard to committers, how is the control of those with commit (versus access) privileges tied to OASIS TC member authentication, or some other authentication, and who administers it?
    
    As an individual developer, apart from not having a shared revision history, I can and do run multiple version control systems and I can have working copies that are associated with SVN and also git/Mercurial (and even VSS, which I still use because of a sweet spot it handles for me).  It doesn't bother me at all to interact with an OASIS TC repository implemented on SVN even though I may have a finer-grained repository that I also synchronize with that working copy all under my own responsibility and off-line as far as the remote SVN site is concerned.  This would certainly be the case if I was testing and debugging and making changes to test scripts or code or examples that are posted from time to time in a more-finished state to a TC SVN.  The use of SVN is not a burden.
    
    It is not clear to me that the OASIS SVN is broken with regard to how it serves the OASIS Technical Committees in the context of the OASIS use cases.  I am reluctant to entertain fixing something that is clearly not broken, considering the many other concerns there are to deal with beside having a workable versioned repository.
    
     - Dennis