OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list attribute referencing to the previous list. From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds all the in between content, because: The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be arbitrary. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the same nested/indent level as the referenced list What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased in list level? Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the discussion? Does this feature exists as well in other formats? Thanks in advance, Svante

Hi, I know more about this attribute as I belong to the group of TC members how were proposing it for ODF 1.2 As I am currently quite busy I will not answer now, but (hopefully) before our next ODF TC call - please stay tuned. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 Subject: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list attribute referencing to the previous list. From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds all the in between content, because: 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be arbitrary. 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the same nested/indent level as the referenced list 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased in list level? Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the discussion? Does this feature exists as well in other formats? Thanks in advance, Svante

Hi, sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the last days were quite busy. May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought attribute text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute text:continue-list: <quote> The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described below. </quote> What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, but somehow got lost. What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when a list is spread through certain table cells. Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. <text:numbered-paragraph> For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. [1] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05-proposal-lists.odt found on proposal list in our wiki [2] [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 Subject: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list attribute referencing to the previous list. From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds all the in between content, because: 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be arbitrary. 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the same nested/indent level as the referenced list 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased in list level? Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the discussion? Does this feature exists as well in other formats? Thanks in advance, Svante

Hi Oliver,   if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about this?  We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? -Rob <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, > Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > Hi, > > sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the > last days were quite busy. > > May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought attribute > text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] > Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute > text:continue-list: > <quote> > The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an > arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also > ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also > better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. > These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level > <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing > text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described below. > </quote> > > What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only > valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, > but somehow got lost. > > What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only > refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was > replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. > > Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements > together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when a > list is spread through certain table cells. > > Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id > was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to > represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. > <text:numbered-paragraph> > > For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been > proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. > > > [1] > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- > proposal-lists.odt >  found on proposal list in our wiki [2] > [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From:   Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> > To:   office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date:   29.02.2012 14:47 > Subject:   [office] Continued Lists > Sent by:   <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- > part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > > > It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements > within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list > attribute referencing to the previous list. > From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds > all the in between content, because: >    1.   The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks >       and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be >       arbitrary. >    2.   The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in >       between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) > > > What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of >    1.   @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the >       same nested/indent level as the referenced list >    2.   What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased >       in list level? > > > Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the > discussion? > Does this feature exists as well in other formats? > > > Thanks in advance, > Svante > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >

Hi, if there is demand for it, I will be prepared for it. I except that there are further questions which want to be answered. I assume that there is no need to give a presentation about the corresponding proposal. Right? Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 21.03.2012 03:20 Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi Oliver, if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about this? We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? -Rob <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, > Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > Hi, > > sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the > last days were quite busy. > > May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought attribute > text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] > Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute > text:continue-list: > <quote> > The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an > arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also > ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also > better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. > These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level > <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing > text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described below. > </quote> > > What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only > valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, > but somehow got lost. > > What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only > refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was > replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. > > Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements > together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when a > list is spread through certain table cells. > > Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id > was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to > represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. > <text:numbered-paragraph> > > For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been > proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. > > > [1] > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- > proposal-lists.odt > found on proposal list in our wiki [2] > [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 > Subject: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- > part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > > > It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements > within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list > attribute referencing to the previous list. > From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds > all the in between content, because: > 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks > and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be > arbitrary. > 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in > between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) > > > What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of > 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the > same nested/indent level as the referenced list > 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased > in list level? > > > Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the > discussion? > Does this feature exists as well in other formats? > > > Thanks in advance, > Svante > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >

Hi, as I raised the initial question, allow me to reply on this. From my side there is no need for a presentation, instead we might want to make the information exchange as short and efficient as possible. Do be able to do so, it would be helpful, if you could create a JIRA issue in advance - clarifying the diff between proposal and spec, checking if further parts did not make it into the spec - so TC members are able to see at one glance, what have to be fixed in an upcoming errata. Thanks, Svante On 23.03.2012 10:11, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: > Hi, > > if there is demand for it, I will be prepared for it. > I except that there are further questions which want to be answered. > I assume that there is no need to give a presentation about the > corresponding proposal. > Right? > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com > To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE > Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date: 21.03.2012 03:20 > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > Hi Oliver, if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about > this? We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? > > -Rob > > <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > >> From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, >> Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> Hi, >> >> sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the >> last days were quite busy. >> >> May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought > attribute >> text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] >> Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute >> text:continue-list: >> <quote> >> The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an >> arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also >> ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also >> better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. >> These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level >> <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing >> text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described > below. >> </quote> >> >> What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only >> valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, >> but somehow got lost. >> >> What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only >> refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was >> replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. >> >> Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements >> together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when > a >> list is spread through certain table cells. >> >> Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id >> was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to >> represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. >> <text:numbered-paragraph> >> >> For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been >> proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. >> >> >> [1] >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- >> proposal-lists.odt >> found on proposal list in our wiki [2] >> [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals >> >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards >> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann >> >> -- >> Advisory Software Engineer >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland >> Beim Strohhause 17 >> 20097 Hamburg >> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 >> E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des >> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz >> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht > Stuttgart, >> HRB 243294 >> >> >> >> From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org >> Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 >> Subject: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> >> >> I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: >> http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- >> part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list >> >> >> It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements >> within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list >> attribute referencing to the previous list. >> From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds >> all the in between content, because: >> 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page > breaks >> and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be >> arbitrary. >> 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in >> between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) >> >> >> What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of >> 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has > the >> same nested/indent level as the referenced list >> 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are > increased/decreased >> in list level? >> >> >> Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to > the >> discussion? >> Does this feature exists as well in other formats? >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Svante >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >

Hi, ok. I agree that it would make sense to figure out in advance what parts did not make it into the spec before we start a deeper discussion in our TC call. Thus, I propose the following: - submit an JIRA issue in order to get the missing parts into the next spec. and the next errata. - complete this JIRA issue until Friday next week with a corresponding proposal about the proposed change to the spec. resp. the proposed text for the errata. - discuss this JIRA issue in the following TC call. Any objections? I propose to decide on this proposal in our next TC call. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 23.03.2012 10:24 Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi, as I raised the initial question, allow me to reply on this. From my side there is no need for a presentation, instead we might want to make the information exchange as short and efficient as possible. Do be able to do so, it would be helpful, if you could create a JIRA issue in advance - clarifying the diff between proposal and spec, checking if further parts did not make it into the spec - so TC members are able to see at one glance, what have to be fixed in an upcoming errata. Thanks, Svante On 23.03.2012 10:11, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: > Hi, > > if there is demand for it, I will be prepared for it. > I except that there are further questions which want to be answered. > I assume that there is no need to give a presentation about the > corresponding proposal. > Right? > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com > To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE > Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date: 21.03.2012 03:20 > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > Hi Oliver, if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about > this? We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? > > -Rob > > <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > >> From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, >> Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> Hi, >> >> sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the >> last days were quite busy. >> >> May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought > attribute >> text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] >> Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute >> text:continue-list: >> <quote> >> The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an >> arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also >> ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also >> better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. >> These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level >> <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing >> text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described > below. >> </quote> >> >> What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only >> valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, >> but somehow got lost. >> >> What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only >> refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was >> replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. >> >> Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements >> together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when > a >> list is spread through certain table cells. >> >> Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id >> was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to >> represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. >> <text:numbered-paragraph> >> >> For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been >> proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. >> >> >> [1] >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- >> proposal-lists.odt >> found on proposal list in our wiki [2] >> [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals >> >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards >> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann >> >> -- >> Advisory Software Engineer >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland >> Beim Strohhause 17 >> 20097 Hamburg >> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 >> E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des >> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz >> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht > Stuttgart, >> HRB 243294 >> >> >> >> From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org >> Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 >> Subject: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> >> >> I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: >> http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- >> part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list >> >> >> It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements >> within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list >> attribute referencing to the previous list. >> From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds >> all the in between content, because: >> 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page > breaks >> and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be >> arbitrary. >> 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in >> between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) >> >> >> What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of >> 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has > the >> same nested/indent level as the referenced list >> 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are > increased/decreased >> in list level? >> >> >> Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to > the >> discussion? >> Does this feature exists as well in other formats? >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Svante >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org

Hi, I have to admit that I can not fullfill my promise to work on this task this week. I am too busy with other stuff - help to get out the first release of Apache OpenOffice (incubating). I assume that I will have time next week - sorry. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE To: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 23.03.2012 16:31 Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi, ok. I agree that it would make sense to figure out in advance what parts did not make it into the spec before we start a deeper discussion in our TC call. Thus, I propose the following: - submit an JIRA issue in order to get the missing parts into the next spec. and the next errata. - complete this JIRA issue until Friday next week with a corresponding proposal about the proposed change to the spec. resp. the proposed text for the errata. - discuss this JIRA issue in the following TC call. Any objections? I propose to decide on this proposal in our next TC call. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 23.03.2012 10:24 Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi, as I raised the initial question, allow me to reply on this. From my side there is no need for a presentation, instead we might want to make the information exchange as short and efficient as possible. Do be able to do so, it would be helpful, if you could create a JIRA issue in advance - clarifying the diff between proposal and spec, checking if further parts did not make it into the spec - so TC members are able to see at one glance, what have to be fixed in an upcoming errata. Thanks, Svante On 23.03.2012 10:11, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: > Hi, > > if there is demand for it, I will be prepared for it. > I except that there are further questions which want to be answered. > I assume that there is no need to give a presentation about the > corresponding proposal. > Right? > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From: robert_weir@us.ibm.com > To: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE > Cc: office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date: 21.03.2012 03:20 > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > Hi Oliver, if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about > this? We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? > > -Rob > > <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > >> From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, >> Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> Hi, >> >> sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the >> last days were quite busy. >> >> May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought > attribute >> text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] >> Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute >> text:continue-list: >> <quote> >> The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an >> arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also >> ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also >> better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. >> These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level >> <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing >> text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described > below. >> </quote> >> >> What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only >> valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, >> but somehow got lost. >> >> What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only >> refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was >> replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. >> >> Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements >> together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when > a >> list is spread through certain table cells. >> >> Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id >> was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to >> represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. >> <text:numbered-paragraph> >> >> For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been >> proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. >> >> >> [1] >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- >> proposal-lists.odt >> found on proposal list in our wiki [2] >> [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals >> >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards >> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann >> >> -- >> Advisory Software Engineer >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland >> Beim Strohhause 17 >> 20097 Hamburg >> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 >> E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des >> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz >> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht > Stuttgart, >> HRB 243294 >> >> >> >> From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> >> To: office@lists.oasis-open.org >> Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 >> Subject: [office] Continued Lists >> Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> >> >> >> >> I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: >> http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- >> part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list >> >> >> It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements >> within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list >> attribute referencing to the previous list. >> From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds >> all the in between content, because: >> 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page > breaks >> and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be >> arbitrary. >> 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in >> between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) >> >> >> What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of >> 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has > the >> same nested/indent level as the referenced list >> 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are > increased/decreased >> in list level? >> >> >> Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to > the >> discussion? >> Does this feature exists as well in other formats? >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Svante >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org

Right.   No need for a presentation.  Maybe just 5 minutes to discuss the status of the proposal, next steps, etc.  I just want to make sure it is on our radar and that we have a few minutes if anyone has questions. -Rob <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/23/2012 05:11:03 AM: > From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, > Date: 03/23/2012 05:11 AM > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > Hi, > > if there is demand for it, I will be prepared for it. > I except that there are further questions which want to be answered. > I assume that there is no need to give a presentation about the > corresponding proposal. > Right? > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From:   robert_weir@us.ibm.com > To:   Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM@IBMDE > Cc:   office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date:   21.03.2012 03:20 > Subject:   Re: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by:   <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > Hi Oliver,   if I put this on the agenda for next week can you talk about > this?  We can discuss for maybe 15 minutes? > > -Rob > > <office@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 03/16/2012 07:22:26 AM: > > > From: Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <ORWITT@de.ibm.com> > > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org, > > Date: 03/16/2012 07:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists > > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > Hi, > > > > sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the > > last days were quite busy. > > > > May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought > attribute > > text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] > > Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute > > text:continue-list: > > <quote> > > The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an > > arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also > > ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also > > better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. > > These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level > > <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing > > text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described > below. > > </quote> > > > > What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only > > valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, > > but somehow got lost. > > > > What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only > > refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was > > replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. > > > > Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements > > together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when > a > > list is spread through certain table cells. > > > > Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id > > was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to > > represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. > > <text:numbered-paragraph> > > > > For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been > > proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. > > > > > > [1] > > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05- > > proposal-lists.odt > >  found on proposal list in our wiki [2] > > [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals > > > > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > > > -- > > Advisory Software Engineer > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > IBM Deutschland > > Beim Strohhause 17 > > 20097 Hamburg > > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht > Stuttgart, > > HRB 243294 > > > > > > > > From:   Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> > > To:   office@lists.oasis-open.org > > Date:   29.02.2012 14:47 > > Subject:   [office] Continued Lists > > Sent by:   <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > > > > > I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: > > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os- > > part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > > > > > > It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements > > within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list > > attribute referencing to the previous list. > > From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds > > all the in between content, because: > >    1.   The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page > breaks > >       and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be > >       arbitrary. > >    2.   The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in > >       between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) > > > > > > What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of > >    1.   @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has > the > >       same nested/indent level as the referenced list > >    2.   What happens if one of both list's list item are > increased/decreased > >       in list level? > > > > > > Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to > the > > discussion? > > Does this feature exists as well in other formats? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Svante > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >

As we started to discuss lists, allow me to continue this old thread. In ODF 1.2 it is not mentioned that the attribute @text:continue-list is only allowed on the root element, see http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list Although it makes sense and was suggested that way. A further question regarding the numbering of by @text:continue-list connected lists of different style, which was already asked by Cherie and answered https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-3558 , which might as well find its way into the specification. Another defect seems that http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list made it to the <text:number-paragraph> https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 But IMHO <text:number-paragraph> should be deprecated anyway, as they are not adding a feature to ODF, only further complexity. Similar to http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-numbering , which was replaced by http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list Knowing what I know now, I am longing for an List ID attribute, instead of references. Following scenario: There is a list consistent of three separated parts A, B, C in the document. C is pointing to B and B is pointing to A. If we are moving part A in-between B and C, we have to update all three references, while a document wide List ID at the list, list-item or paragraph (which is the finally property holder anyway) would be far easier. Is there a certain way of deprecating features in OASIS specification? Best regards, Svante On 16.03.2012 12:22, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: > Hi, > > sorry for the late response and that I did not fullfill my promise - the > last days were quite busy. > > May be you should have a look at the proposal text which brought attribute > text:continue-list into ODF 1.2 [1] > Here is a quote from this proposal text regarding attribute > text:continue-list: > <quote> > The purpose of these new attributes is to continue the numbering of an > arbitrary preceding list regardless of the applied list styles. It also > ensures that lists in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation can also > better be modeled in the <text:list> representation. > These new attributes should be optional and are only valid for top-level > <text:list> elements. It should be used in favor of the existing > text:continue-numbering attribute that has the limitations described below. > </quote> > > What is missing in the specification is that text:continue-list is only > valid for top-level <text:list> elements. This was in the proposal text, > but somehow got lost. > > What is also missing is that the attribute text:continue-list shall only > refer a top-level <text:list> element. The proposed attribute text:id was > replace by xml:id, but somehow the previously mentioned wording got lost. > > Thus, this attribute shall only connect to top-level <text:list> elements > together in order to form more or less one list. With is esp. used, when a > list is spread through certain table cells. > > Another important reason for this attribute and the corresponding xml:id > was to clarify the transformation between the alternative approaches to > represent lists in ODF - <text:list> together with <text:list-item> vs. > <text:numbered-paragraph> > > For <text:numbered-paragraph> mandatory attribute <text:list-id> has been > proposed and integrated into ODF 1.2. > > > [1] > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/23418/07-04-05-proposal-lists.odt > found on proposal list in our wiki [2] > [2] http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/List_of_Proposals > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann > > -- > Advisory Software Engineer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland > Beim Strohhause 17 > 20097 Hamburg > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 > E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, > HRB 243294 > > > > From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> > To: office@lists.oasis-open.org > Date: 29.02.2012 14:47 > Subject: [office] Continued Lists > Sent by: <office@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > > I got a question in regard of the @text:continue-list attribute: > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > > > It is obvious that this attribute connects two (or more) lists elements > within a document, where the following list has the @text:continue-list > attribute referencing to the previous list. > From my understanding those lists are not equal to one list, which embeds > all the in between content, because: > 1. The ODF 1.2 schema only allows paragraphs, headings, soft-page breaks > and (nested) lists within a list. The in between content may be > arbitrary. > 2. The usual indent of list content is likely not to apply to the in > between content (unspecified - what is the user expectation?) > > > What puzzles me, is the spec is not precise in regard of > 1. @text:continue-list only allowing an xml:id of a list, that has the > same nested/indent level as the referenced list > 2. What happens if one of both list's list item are increased/decreased > in list level? > > > Can someone remember the use case for this feature and/or reference to the > discussion? > Does this feature exists as well in other formats? > > > Thanks in advance, > Svante > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: office-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: office-help@lists.oasis-open.org >

On 04.02.2013 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > Another defect seems that > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 Correction: Of course it was http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-numbering that made it into http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-text_numbered-paragraph Interesting that only the numbered-paragraph got already the list-id, I am longing for: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_list-id - Svante

Hi, list-id for <text:list> had been replaced by xml-id during our way to ODF 1.2 Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From:         Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To:         office@lists.oasis-open.org, Date:         04.02.2013 15:15 Subject:         Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by:         <office@lists.oasis-open.org> On 04.02.2013 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > Another defect seems that > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 Correction: Of course it was http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-numbering that made it into http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-text_numbered-paragraph Interesting that only the numbered-paragraph got already the list-id, I am longing for: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_list-id - Svante --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

My interpretation of text:list-id is different. Anyway, the list ID I was longing for, is neither an xml:id nor a reference to it, but similar to a style, just a flag, which marks paragraph to belong to the same list and to be considered, when calculating the numbers. Paragraphs with such a shared list-id should be able to be spread across the document and grouped by this ID. Thanks, Svante On 04.02.2013 15:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, list-id for <text:list> had been replaced by xml-id during our way to ODF 1.2 Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From:         Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To:         office@lists.oasis-open.org , Date:         04.02.2013 15:15 Subject:         Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by:         <office@lists.oasis-open.org> On 04.02.2013 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > Another defect seems that > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 Correction: Of course it was http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-numbering that made it into http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-text_numbered-paragraph Interesting that only the numbered-paragraph got already the list-id, I am longing for: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_list-id - Svante --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

Hi, sorry, I have mixed things up here - forget my comment. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From:         Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To:         office@lists.oasis-open.org, Date:         04.02.2013 15:34 Subject:         Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by:         <office@lists.oasis-open.org> My interpretation of text:list-id is different. Anyway, the list ID I was longing for, is neither an xml:id nor a reference to it, but similar to a style, just a flag, which marks paragraph to belong to the same list and to be considered, when calculating the numbers. Paragraphs with such a shared list-id should be able to be spread across the document and grouped by this ID. Thanks, Svante On 04.02.2013 15:25, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Hi, list-id for <text:list> had been replaced by xml-id during our way to ODF 1.2 Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Oliver-Rainer Wittmann -- Advisory Software Engineer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Beim Strohhause 17 20097 Hamburg Phone: +49-40-6389-1415 E-Mail: orwitt@de.ibm.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 From:         Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To:         office@lists.oasis-open.org , Date:         04.02.2013 15:15 Subject:         Re: [office] Continued Lists Sent by:         <office@lists.oasis-open.org> On 04.02.2013 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > Another defect seems that > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 Correction: Of course it was http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-numbering that made it into http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-text_numbered-paragraph Interesting that only the numbered-paragraph got already the list-id, I am longing for: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_list-id - Svante --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

On 04/02/13 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > As we started to discuss lists, allow me to continue this old thread. > > In ODF 1.2 it is not mentioned that the attribute @text:continue-list is > only allowed on the root element, see > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > Although it makes sense and was suggested that way. indeed it does. LibreOffice ignores text:continue-list except when on a root text:list element. > Another defect seems that > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#attribute-text_continue-list > made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 right, my assumption is if i filed an issue about it it must be wrong :) > But IMHO <text:number-paragraph> should be deprecated anyway, as they > are not adding a feature to ODF, only further complexity. i agree with you that it does not really make sense to have 2 different list representations in ODF because it's just unnecessary complexity; deprecation sounds good. for the record, AFAIK OpenOffice.org and its forks have never written text:numbered-paragraph elements; OpenOffice.org only supports reading it since version 3.1. at the time when i implemented that, the only producer i could find that wrote these was KOffice 1.x. > Knowing what I know now, I am longing for an List ID attribute, instead > of references. > Following scenario: There is a list consistent of three separated parts > A, B, C in the document. C is pointing to B and B is pointing to A. > If we are moving part A in-between B and C, we have to update all three > references, while a document wide List ID at the list, list-item or > paragraph (which is the finally property holder anyway) would be far easier. if i understand it right the problem is that text:list has an xml:id attribute which is an ID and therefore has an uniqueness constraint. of course ODF implementations may have internal structures that use the same list ID on all "elements" of the list internally and only convert to the ODF representation with distinct xml:id and text:continue-list on export; are you thinking about something based on an XML DOM directly? > Best regards, > Svante regards, michael

On Monday 04 February 2013 15:39:39 Michael Stahl wrote: > On 04/02/13 15:12, Svante Schubert wrote: > > As we started to discuss lists, allow me to continue this old thread. > > > > In ODF 1.2 it is not mentioned that the attribute @text:continue-list is > > only allowed on the root element, see > > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html > > #attribute-text_continue-list Although it makes sense and was suggested > > that way. > > indeed it does. LibreOffice ignores text:continue-list except when on a > root text:list element. > > > Another defect seems that > > http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html > > #attribute-text_continue-list made it to the <text:number-paragraph> > > https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1896 > > right, my assumption is if i filed an issue about it it must be wrong :) > > > But IMHO <text:number-paragraph> should be deprecated anyway, as they > > are not adding a feature to ODF, only further complexity. > > i agree with you that it does not really make sense to have 2 different > list representations in ODF because it's just unnecessary complexity; > deprecation sounds good. > > for the record, AFAIK OpenOffice.org and its forks have never written > text:numbered-paragraph elements; OpenOffice.org only supports reading > it since version 3.1. at the time when i implemented that, the only > producer i could find that wrote these was KOffice 1.x. > Speaking from Calligra, the successor of KOffice, I can say that we still write out text:numbered-paragraph but only if we loaded it We have no way to create such things from scratch anymore, and I suspect it would be possible to convert numbered paragraphs to normal lists during load. As such I can support a deprecation, but I would need some time to actually make sure we don't write it out anymore. Camilla Boemann

My brain exploded on what the issue with <text:numbered-paragraph> is. I gather that text:continue-list is not meant to be allowed on that element. I have an use case for paragraphs that have section numbering. That is, they are numbered as if part of the section numbering hierarchy and as if the paragraph is a nested subsection, although there is no header, just the paragraph with a number in its first line. (This is not uncommon in work on specifications, although the practice is not employed in the ODF specification.) My question is whether or not that was also an intended use of <text:numbered-paragraph> even though the current text has it be wedded to list numbering. Is "outline numbering" what I mean by nested section numbering? Does that case apply to <text:numbered-paragraph>? Here's a handy example of what I mean by this: < http://nfoworks.org/notes/2012/08/n120801.htm >. The purpose is to provide for precise cross-referencing without relying on line-numbering and fixed pagination everywhere. (In this case note that all of the section numbers are permalinks to themselves, so that a particular place is easy to bookmark in a comment or error report. That is the value of this technique in specifications. I used an HTML example because I have many of those in my possession.) - Dennis
Original Message----- From: office@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:office@lists.oasis-open.org ] On Behalf Of Svante Schubert Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 06:13 To: office@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [office] Continued Lists [ ... ] IMHO <text:number-paragraph> should be deprecated anyway, as they are not adding a feature to ODF, only further complexity. Similar to http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#at tribute-text_continue-numbering, which was replaced by http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#at tribute-text_continue-list [ ... ]