OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

  • 1.  Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified

    Posted 06-24-2013 17:53
    Submitter's message fixed typo -- Mr. Scott Hudson Document Name : Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) Description Add attributes and elements to the table model to enhance accessibility for screen readers. Download Latest Revision Public Download Link Submitter : Mr. Scott Hudson Group : OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC Folder : Drafts Date submitted : 2013-06-24 10:52:16 Revision : 0


  • 2.  Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified

    Posted 06-24-2013 18:57
    Hi Scott, When reading the proposal it seems hard to distinguish between what is possible today and what is new. Can you fill out the "Proposed changes" section of the template with an overview of the actual changes to DITA? More generally, I think people unfamiliar with DITA tables would read this proposal and get the impression that tables cannot be made accessible today. I'd like to note that using the DITA-OT today, almost all of the tables in your examples would generate HTML with all required headers/id associations. The only exception is table 3, which uses multiple header rows, because DITA doesn't yet provide a way to identify that. I think it would be good if the "use case" section was updated to provide samples of what cannot be done today. Apart from those issues, I have several more specific comments / questions: 1. Minor item - though I like to focus on the DITA-OT myself, the processing impacts should really be more general, as the toolkit is just one of many DITA tools out there 2. I'm not sure I understand why we would create "summary" as an attribute - in DITA 1.1, we deprecated all attributes with translatable text and created elements instead. So, I would expect that the table summary should follow that pattern. This shouldn't be an issue for HTML, as any DITA content rendered as HTML already has to undergo some sort of transformation. 3. Are you suggesting that we add the @xml:id attribute in addition to the existing @id attribute? If so, is there a reason that @id does not work? 4. It looks like the code samples use DocBook rather than DITA 5. In the "processing impact" section, I think it would be good to point out that tools which already automate the id/headers association will need to be updated to change that automation - presumably respecting the author's manual selection instead of the automated one. Thanks, Robert D Anderson IBM Authoring Tools Development Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit ( http://dita-ot.sourceforge.net/ ) From: Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@schneider-electric.com> To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org, Date: 06/24/2013 13:53 Subject: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Submitter's message fixed typo -- Mr. Scott Hudson ------------------------------------------------ Document Name: Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) Description Add attributes and elements to the table model to enhance accessibility for screen readers. Download Latest Revision Public Download Link Submitter: Mr. Scott Hudson Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC Folder: Drafts Date submitted: 2013-06-24 10:52:16 Revision: 0 ------------------------------------------------


  • 3.  Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified

    Posted 06-24-2013 22:40
    Title: Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified Hi Robert, et al, I've embedded my comments below [SH]. Thanks and best regards, --Scott Scott Hudson         PELCO     by Schneider Electric         United States      Standards Lead   Phone:   +1 970 282 1952     Mobile:   +1 720 369 2433      Email:   scott.hudson@schneider-electric.com Sites:   pdn.pelco.com , partnerfirst.pelco.com   On Jun 24, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Robert D Anderson < robander@us.ibm.com > wrote: Hi Scott, When reading the proposal it seems hard to distinguish between what is possible today and what is new. Can you fill out the Proposed changes section of the template with an overview of the actual changes to DITA? [SH] I'll update the Proposed Changes section. More generally, I think people unfamiliar with DITA tables would read this proposal and get the impression that tables cannot be made accessible today. I'd like to note that using the DITA-OT today, almost all of the tables in your examples would generate HTML with all required headers/id associations. The only exception is table 3, which uses multiple header rows, because DITA doesn't yet provide a way to identify that. I think it would be good if the use case section was updated to provide samples of what cannot be done today. [SH] I can update the examples as well, but wanted to provide examples of how to use the proposed markup changes? Apart from those issues, I have several more specific comments / questions: 1. Minor item - though I like to focus on the DITA-OT myself, the processing impacts should really be more general, as the toolkit is just one of many DITA tools out there [SH] agree. It was in the template, so thought it was required to be specific. I recommend updating the template. I will generalize the sections in the proposal. 2. I'm not sure I understand why we would create summary as an attribute - in DITA 1.1, we deprecated all attributes with translatable text and created elements instead. So, I would expect that the table summary should follow that pattern. This shouldn't be an issue for HTML, as any DITA content rendered as HTML already has to undergo some sort of transformation. [SH] I thought about this as well, but was wary of adding a new element. I agree with the move to use elements for translation purposes, so will update the proposal to use a new element. Question: should we follow the HTML5 approach and put it in caption/detail/summary? 3. Are you suggesting that we add the @xml:id attribute in addition to the existing @id attribute? If so, is there a reason that @id does not work? [SH] xml:id would be more appropriate IMO, but I don't see that using id would be a problem. 4. It looks like the code samples use DocBook rather than DITA [SH] apologies. Copy/paste error since I'm asking for this in both standards... will update. 5. In the processing impact section, I think it would be good to point out that tools which already automate the id/headers association will need to be updated to change that automation - presumably respecting the author's manual selection instead of the automated one. [SH] Good point. I'll add this clarification. Thanks, Robert D Anderson IBM Authoring Tools Development Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit ( http://dita-ot.sourceforge.net/ ) From:   Scott Hudson < scott.hudson@schneider-electric.com > To:     dita@lists.oasis-open.org , Date:   06/24/2013 13:53 Subject:        [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source)             modified Sent by:        < dita@lists.oasis-open.org > Submitter's message fixed typo -- Mr. Scott Hudson ------------------------------------------------ Document Name: Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source)                                   Description                                     Add attributes and elements to the table model  to enhance accessibility for                    screen readers.                                 Download Latest Revision                        Public Download Link                            Submitter: Mr. Scott Hudson                     Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing          Architecture (DITA) TC                          Folder: Drafts                                  Date submitted: 2013-06-24 10:52:16             Revision: 0                                                                                     ------------------------------------------------ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. ______________________________________________________________________


  • 4.  Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified

    Posted 06-25-2013 13:52
    Title: Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified Scott, it sounds as if you need to do some work on the stage 2 proposal before it comes before the TC for consideration. Let me know if you also need this back on the agenda for Pre-stage 2 proposal discussion. Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting Co-chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/24/2013 6:40 PM, Scott Hudson wrote: Hi Robert, et al, I've embedded my comments below [SH]. Thanks and best regards, --Scott Scott Hudson         PELCO     by Schneider Electric         United States      Standards Lead   Phone:   +1 970 282 1952     Mobile:   +1 720 369 2433      Email:   scott.hudson@schneider-electric.com Sites:   pdn.pelco.com , partnerfirst.pelco.com   On Jun 24, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Robert D Anderson < robander@us.ibm.com > wrote: Hi Scott, When reading the proposal it seems hard to distinguish between what is possible today and what is new. Can you fill out the Proposed changes section of the template with an overview of the actual changes to DITA? [SH] I'll update the Proposed Changes section. More generally, I think people unfamiliar with DITA tables would read this proposal and get the impression that tables cannot be made accessible today. I'd like to note that using the DITA-OT today, almost all of the tables in your examples would generate HTML with all required headers/id associations. The only exception is table 3, which uses multiple header rows, because DITA doesn't yet provide a way to identify that. I think it would be good if the use case section was updated to provide samples of what cannot be done today. [SH] I can update the examples as well, but wanted to provide examples of how to use the proposed markup changes? Apart from those issues, I have several more specific comments / questions: 1. Minor item - though I like to focus on the DITA-OT myself, the processing impacts should really be more general, as the toolkit is just one of many DITA tools out there [SH] agree. It was in the template, so thought it was required to be specific. I recommend updating the template. I will generalize the sections in the proposal. 2. I'm not sure I understand why we would create summary as an attribute - in DITA 1.1, we deprecated all attributes with translatable text and created elements instead. So, I would expect that the table summary should follow that pattern. This shouldn't be an issue for HTML, as any DITA content rendered as HTML already has to undergo some sort of transformation. [SH] I thought about this as well, but was wary of adding a new element. I agree with the move to use elements for translation purposes, so will update the proposal to use a new element. Question: should we follow the HTML5 approach and put it in caption/detail/summary? 3. Are you suggesting that we add the @xml:id attribute in addition to the existing @id attribute? If so, is there a reason that @id does not work? [SH] xml:id would be more appropriate IMO, but I don't see that using id would be a problem. 4. It looks like the code samples use DocBook rather than DITA [SH] apologies. Copy/paste error since I'm asking for this in both standards... will update. 5. In the processing impact section, I think it would be good to point out that tools which already automate the id/headers association will need to be updated to change that automation - presumably respecting the author's manual selection instead of the automated one. [SH] Good point. I'll add this clarification. Thanks, Robert D Anderson IBM Authoring Tools Development Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit ( http://dita-ot.sourceforge.net/ ) From:   Scott Hudson < scott.hudson@schneider-electric.com > To:     dita@lists.oasis-open.org , Date:   06/24/2013 13:53 Subject:        [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source)             modified Sent by:        < dita@lists.oasis-open.org > Submitter's message fixed typo -- Mr. Scott Hudson ------------------------------------------------ Document Name: Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source)                                   Description                                     Add attributes and elements to the table model  to enhance accessibility for                    screen readers.                                 Download Latest Revision                        Public Download Link                            Submitter: Mr. Scott Hudson                     Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing          Architecture (DITA) TC                          Folder: Drafts                                  Date submitted: 2013-06-24 10:52:16             Revision: 0                                                                                     ------------------------------------------------ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. ______________________________________________________________________


  • 5.  Re: [dita] Groups - Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) modified

    Posted 06-24-2013 19:06
    Scott, if you want this to go on the agenda as a stage 2 proposal, you need to add HTML and PDF output to Kavi. When we consider a proposal at the TC meeting, we need to add a link to the agenda. This link must be to an output format that opens directly in the Web browser. Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting Co-chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 6/24/2013 1:53 PM, Scott Hudson wrote: Submitter's message fixed typo -- Mr. Scott Hudson Document Name : Proposal 62, Table Accessibility (DITA Source) Description Add attributes and elements to the table model to enhance accessibility for screen readers. Download Latest Revision Public Download Link Submitter : Mr. Scott Hudson Group : OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC Folder : Drafts Date submitted : 2013-06-24 10:52:16 Revision : 0