OASIS ebXML Messaging Services TC

Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about ConversationId

  • 1.  Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about ConversationId

    Posted 11-30-2001 12:51
       Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:28:03 -0500
       From: Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>
    
       This is about the use case for message ordering in the quote from Dan
       Weinreb's posting below.
    
       ...
    
       Someone, please explain why the collaboration will break if I receive the
       advance shipment notice before the invoice. If that happens, I will know to
       expect the invoice.  It seems to me that these two messages are classic
       cases for using email, in which case the order of receipt is unpredictable.
       The code on the other side could issue a warning to its user if the advance
       ship notice comes first but it shouldn't crash the collaboration. If the
       collaboration protocol design really requires that the invoice be RECEIVED
       before the advance shipment notice, then the collaboration protocol should
       specify an acknowledgment to the invoice.
    
       Maybe I am missing an important point in this use case but if I am right,
       then I have to ask: why must we design for a broken use case?
    
    It seems to me that what you're saying is that there must be a
    restriction on all BPSS's, saying that there SHALL NOT be a business
    transaction in which the BPSS has two states, one following another,
    in which the first one receives a message for which there is no
    business reply, and the second one receives a message.
    
    You seem to be proposing that the MS protocol should have no ability
    to do message-ordering, and that the MS team should tell the BPSS team
    that this is *their* problem, and they should outlaw all BPSS's that
    might create the need for ordering in the MS.
    
    So if party A wants to send two messages to party B, and there is no
    need for business responses to these messages, then when A and B get
    together to agree on how they're going to be do business, they must
    either (a) introduce a business response that would otherwise not be
    necessary in order to meet this requirement, or (b) write the BPSS
    with a split(fork)/join so that it explicitly doesn't depend on the
    order.
    
    That doesn't seem like a constraint that we ought to force onto the BPSS.
    
    -- Dan