OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

  • 1.  Fwd: DIFF document?

    Posted 07-13-2020 01:39
    Greetings! A response from Paul Knight on the https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4083 Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: DIFF document? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 14:57:26 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> CC: Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, Yes, working from a boat sounds like a great way to embrace social distancing! I imagine Chet would be happy to do that, but I'm pretty sure he's stuck landside... It sounds like you are asking two questions - why is there a DIFF file, and why does it show changes - ?? First - why is there a DIFF file: The DIFF file is intended to show the changes between the CSPRD02 stage and the CS01 stage. (A quick look at the first page of the document you linked shows that.) As a standard part of the publication process, we always prepare a DIFF to display changes made between Public Reviews, or when an approval ballot includes Non-Material Changes (like the ballot to approve this CS [1]). After preparing the files for publication as CS01, I used the MS Word Compare function to generate the DIFF file. (As far as I can tell, the Compare Document function in LibreOffice can't generate a document which is as clear as the MS- Word output.) Second - why does it show changes? Obviously, because there are changes between CSPRD02 and CS01. The changes are in the files the TC approved, as linked in the ballot. As far as I can see, the only changes of any significance are the changes in Section 1.5, where two references to Part 3 have been changed to Part 2 . In addition, some of the URIs in the Normative References were hyperlinked in CS01, while they were plain text in CSPRD02. There's also a reference to [ZIP] in the last line of Appendix C that was changed. I'm not sure what the TC member meant by the XML did not change . I assume that refers to the files in the schemas directory [2]. (?) Looking at the TC's record of changes, as cited in the ballot, does not indicate any specific changes to the schema files, so I suppose there's no reason the schema files would change. In any case, we simply publish the schema files you provide in the approved materials, and don't try to compare them to any previous versions. (i.e., we don't prepare a DIFF for schema files) Well, I hope that answers your questions here, but please let me know if something is unclear. Best regards, Paul [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=3460 [2] https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/schemas/ On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Paul, A TC member pointed this out to me: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part2-packages/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part2-packages-DIFF.pdf and I was wondering how that came into being? The TC page links to the proper file so I'm not sure where this even came from. The reason for asking is it is claimed the XML did not change, yet you can see changes in this file. Thanks! Hope you are at the start of a great week! Patrick PS: Is Chet working from his sailboat for social distancing purposes? ;-) -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature


  • 2.  Re: [office] Fwd: DIFF document?

    Posted 07-13-2020 11:18
    Hello Paul, We might want to consider to (semi)automate our OASIS processes to save OASIS (and the TC) time & pain in the future. Background The ODF TC plans to have the working revisions of its deliverables accessible at any time at (for instance for ODF 1.3): https://github.com/oasis-tcs/odf-tc/tree/master/src/main/resources/odf1.3 After ODF 1.3 CS02 we decided on the last meeting to be using a review process for editing our deliverables: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4082 What does OASIS change on deliverables? I would be curious about what the OASIS technical stuff does have to adapt when a release is being done? Could we assist you in doing it? Obvious seems the following changes: Date of Delivery - the date the vote ended and the specification takes as publishing date OASIS Copyright Year - the year of publishing is being updated in the copyright header, footer, etc. of our deliverables The above could be variables being exchanged (during copy) when we are doing a delivery (I did this already in a project of mine ). The Future of the DIFF Regarding the DIFF, from the process described in https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4082 I feel more comfortable if there is a DIFF file for every fixed bug & new feature of ODF 1.4. The advantage of having a DIFF-by-feature for the end-user - the implementor of ODF 1.4 - would be, to take a quick look at the changes in the specification (and/or RNG, deliverables) for this particular bug/feature. If I stumble over a DIFF (PDF) file in the final deliverables of ODF 1.3 CS01 my assumption was to see what has been changed to ODF 1.2. The previous version I have implemented and read. The current DIFF to CSPRD is of little use to me. I know this concept of the W3C, but they got at least a queue of DIFF files, but all these DIFFs usually have a lot of noise by format changes, which are of no interest to the implementor - at least IMHO. Easier Adoption to new OASIS Identity/Design Last but not least, if there is a design change at OASIS, there is little use in providing us with a new DOCX (or an ODT saved from a DOCX), as the ODF TC has a stable named set of template styles, which have to be altered instead. Currently, our editor Francis Cave is working on a new ODF 1.4 style set, perhaps we should embrace you and future OASIS corporate identity/design changes in our concept of style handling. What do you think Paul? Svante Am Mo., 13. Juli 2020 um 03:38 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Greetings! A response from Paul Knight on the https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4083 Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: DIFF document? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 14:57:26 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> CC: Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, Yes, working from a boat sounds like a great way to embrace social distancing! I imagine Chet would be happy to do that, but I'm pretty sure he's stuck landside... It sounds like you are asking two questions - why is there a DIFF file, and why does it show changes - ?? First - why is there a DIFF file: The DIFF file is intended to show the changes between the CSPRD02 stage and the CS01 stage. (A quick look at the first page of the document you linked shows that.) As a standard part of the publication process, we always prepare a DIFF to display changes made between Public Reviews, or when an approval ballot includes Non-Material Changes (like the ballot to approve this CS [1]). After preparing the files for publication as CS01, I used the MS Word "Compare" function to generate the DIFF file. (As far as I can tell, the "Compare Document" function in LibreOffice can't generate a document which is as clear as the MS- Word output.) Second - why does it show changes? Obviously, because there are changes between CSPRD02 and CS01. The changes are in the files the TC approved, as linked in the ballot. As far as I can see, the only changes of any significance are the changes in Section 1.5, where two references to "Part 3" have been changed to "Part 2". In addition, some of the URIs in the Normative References were hyperlinked in CS01, while they were plain text in CSPRD02. There's also a reference to [ZIP] in the last line of Appendix C that was changed. I'm not sure what the TC member meant by "the XML did not change". I assume that refers to the files in the "schemas" directory [2]. (?) Looking at the TC's record of changes, as cited in the ballot, does not indicate any specific changes to the schema files, so I suppose there's no reason the schema files would change. In any case, we simply publish the schema files you provide in the approved materials, and don't try to compare them to any previous versions. (i.e., we don't prepare a DIFF for schema files) Well, I hope that answers your questions here, but please let me know if something is unclear. Best regards, Paul [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=3460 [2] https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/schemas/ On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Paul, A TC member pointed this out to me: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part2-packages/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part2-packages-DIFF.pdf and I was wondering how that came into being? The TC page links to the proper file so I'm not sure where this even came from. The reason for asking is it is claimed the XML did not change, yet you can see changes in this file. Thanks! Hope you are at the start of a great week! Patrick PS: Is Chet working from his sailboat for social distancing purposes? ;-) -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society


  • 3.  Re: [office] Fwd: DIFF document?

    Posted 07-13-2020 15:44
    Hi Svante, (Also copying Chet Ensign.) These suggestions sound very useful. I'll add more details in-line below... On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 7:18 AM Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com > wrote: Hello Paul, We might want to consider to (semi)automate our OASIS processes to save OASIS (and the TC) time & pain in the future. Background The ODF TC plans to have the working revisions of its deliverables accessible at any time at (for instance for ODF 1.3): https://github.com/oasis-tcs/odf-tc/tree/master/src/main/resources/odf1.3 After ODF 1.3 CS02 we decided on the last meeting to be using a review process for editing our deliverables: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4082 PK> Sounds good - github is very good for this purpose. When things are ready to publish, you'll need to include all the components into a ZIP file, as usual. A formal review process sounds like a good way to manage this massive project. What does OASIS change on deliverables? I would be curious about what the OASIS technical stuff does have to adapt when a release is being done? Could we assist you in doing it? Obvious seems the following changes: Date of Delivery - the date the vote ended and the specification takes as publishing date OASIS Copyright Year - the year of publishing is being updated in the copyright header, footer, etc. of our deliverables The above could be variables being exchanged (during copy) when we are doing a delivery (I did this already in a project of mine ). PK> This is a very good time to discuss this, since the OASIS Board has made some changes to allow a lot more flexibility in preparing documents for publication when the TC is ready to publish. This means we can work with you during publication to address these stage-specific changes, and other non-material or editorial changes. For files like schemas, we insert a copyright block similar to: <!-- Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) Version 1.3 Committee Specification 01 25 December 2019 Copyright (c) OASIS Open 2019. All Rights Reserved. Source: https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/schemas/ Latest stage of specification: https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/OpenDocument-v1.3-part1-introduction.html TC IPR Statement: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/ipr.php --> It is certainly possible for you to do this, and I'll be happy to identify the elements which need to be updated with each publication. You (Editors) are also able to prepare the entire "Front Matter" (all the stuff from the front page to the Table of Contents), but it is a bit complex. The Future of the DIFF Regarding the DIFF, from the process described in https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4082 I feel more comfortable if there is a DIFF file for every fixed bug & new feature of ODF 1.4. The advantage of having a DIFF-by-feature for the end-user - the implementor of ODF 1.4 - would be, to take a quick look at the changes in the specification (and/or RNG, deliverables) for this particular bug/feature. If I stumble over a DIFF (PDF) file in the final deliverables of ODF 1.3 CS01 my assumption was to see what has been changed to ODF 1.2. The previous version I have implemented and read. The current DIFF to CSPRD is of little use to me. I know this concept of the W3C, but they got at least a queue of DIFF files, but all these DIFFs usually have a lot of noise by format changes, which are of no interest to the implementor - at least IMHO. PK> There are several ways to do this, and the TC is certainly in the best position to develop DIFF material for specific audiences. I'd like to suggest an approach used by the Open Data Protocol (OData) TC. They prepared a separate non-normative Committee Note "What s New in OData Version 4.01" [1] to provide detailed information on the changes. The abstract states, "This document describes the shape of, and motivation behind, the changes in OData Version 4.01 compared to its predecessor version 4.0." [1] https://docs.oasis-open.org/odata/new-in-odata/v4.01/cn04/new-in-odata-v4.01-cn04.html A TC can publish a Committee Note like this at any time, without a requirement for public review. However, regarding the DIFF in general, the primary reason we prepare a DIFF against the previous Public Review (when there are changes) is to highlight the current text changes to the specification, to help support the TC Process requirement [2] " the subsequent review shall be limited in scope to changes made in the previous review. " We will continue to provide this level of DIFF, unless Chet agrees otherwise - please feel free to discuss this with him (and me). [2] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process-2017-05-26#publicReview Easier Adoption to new OASIS Identity/Design Last but not least, if there is a design change at OASIS, there is little use in providing us with a new DOCX (or an ODT saved from a DOCX), as the ODF TC has a stable named set of template styles, which have to be altered instead. Currently, our editor Francis Cave is working on a new ODF 1.4 style set, perhaps we should embrace you and future OASIS corporate identity/design changes in our concept of style handling. PK> This sounds very promising. In fact, we would be very happy to work with you to develop an OASIS template built entirely in ODT, with styles defined properly instead of being extracted from other formats. One related item we'd like to explore, with the TC's support, is generating an HTML version which can accurately represent the specification itself. I would be very happy to work with you on this topic. (Mostly by pointing out the current problems!) I should mention that for Version 1.2 [3] (in 2011), the TC (some of the Editors and Chairs - I think primarily Michael Brauer) prepared the HTML version, using a combination of scripts, magic, and glue... do we need to do something similar for v1.3 and beyond? [3] http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html What do you think Paul? Svante Am Mo., 13. Juli 2020 um 03:38 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Greetings! A response from Paul Knight on the https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-4083 Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: DIFF document? Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 14:57:26 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> CC: Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, Yes, working from a boat sounds like a great way to embrace social distancing! I imagine Chet would be happy to do that, but I'm pretty sure he's stuck landside... It sounds like you are asking two questions - why is there a DIFF file, and why does it show changes - ?? First - why is there a DIFF file: The DIFF file is intended to show the changes between the CSPRD02 stage and the CS01 stage. (A quick look at the first page of the document you linked shows that.) As a standard part of the publication process, we always prepare a DIFF to display changes made between Public Reviews, or when an approval ballot includes Non-Material Changes (like the ballot to approve this CS [1]). After preparing the files for publication as CS01, I used the MS Word "Compare" function to generate the DIFF file. (As far as I can tell, the "Compare Document" function in LibreOffice can't generate a document which is as clear as the MS- Word output.) Second - why does it show changes? Obviously, because there are changes between CSPRD02 and CS01. The changes are in the files the TC approved, as linked in the ballot. As far as I can see, the only changes of any significance are the changes in Section 1.5, where two references to "Part 3" have been changed to "Part 2". In addition, some of the URIs in the Normative References were hyperlinked in CS01, while they were plain text in CSPRD02. There's also a reference to [ZIP] in the last line of Appendix C that was changed. I'm not sure what the TC member meant by "the XML did not change". I assume that refers to the files in the "schemas" directory [2]. (?) Looking at the TC's record of changes, as cited in the ballot, does not indicate any specific changes to the schema files, so I suppose there's no reason the schema files would change. In any case, we simply publish the schema files you provide in the approved materials, and don't try to compare them to any previous versions. (i.e., we don't prepare a DIFF for schema files) Well, I hope that answers your questions here, but please let me know if something is unclear. Best regards, Paul [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ballot.php?id=3460 [2] https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/schemas/ On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:29 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Paul, A TC member pointed this out to me: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part2-packages/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part2-packages-DIFF.pdf and I was wondering how that came into being? The TC page links to the proper file so I'm not sure where this even came from. The reason for asking is it is claimed the XML did not change, yet you can see changes in this file. Thanks! Hope you are at the start of a great week! Patrick PS: Is Chet working from his sailboat for social distancing purposes? ;-) -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society