OpenDocument - Adv Document Collab SC

Please find the IRC log of today's meeting below. Our next meeting will be in two weeks on the 23th of October. https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=33780 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2013&month=10&day=23&hour=13&min=30&sec=0&p1=179&p2=37&p3=136&p4=234&iv=1800 The teleconference login data for next call will be found in the OASIS calendar event (URL above). Attendees: John, Oliver, Peter, Patrick, Svante. [15:36]  Svante Schubert: Hi [15:36]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: moin moin from Hamburg [15:37]  Svante Schubert: I have uploaded an initial draft [15:37]  Svante Schubert: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/document.php?document_id=50979 [15:38]  Svante Schubert: please open the document. I will be explaining the sections.. [15:43]  Svante Schubert: Oliver: Asked if all the Meta Operations exist [15:44]  Svante Schubert: Svante: The format might be applicable (still to be added) [15:47]  Svante Schubert: Peter: Has implemented paragraph, text, some styles.. [15:48]  Svante Schubert: Peter: Saving changes/operations in time order [15:50]  Svante Schubert: Do we need a normalization of ODF to be able to compare XML test output? [15:52]  Svante Schubert: Other examples of ODF variations of the same document lead to in different XML: [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 1) Order of automatic styles [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 2) automatic style names [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 3) text:space elements might be split or a single one (similar to span) [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 4) span can also be nested or split [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 5) Hyperlink can be split as well [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 6) Further existence of optional elements/attributes.. [15:55]  Svante Schubert: An implementation note: Nesting spans should be avoided it just makes things complicated (traversing recursivly content, searching for spans, inheriting.. etc.) [16:00]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: Svante: Do you know, if there is any record of Kendy's presentation? [16:01]  John Haug: Similarly, it would be interesting to see what you/Peter presented at the LO conference. [16:02]  Svante Schubert: A little off-topic as implementation dependent - The talk of changing the writer core http://conference.libreoffice.org/2013/en/program/development-2/new-data-structure-for-writer-core [16:02]  Svante Schubert: Slides should follow.. they are on it, the orga said. [16:02]  Svante Schubert: Our talk is here, yet without slides: http://conference.libreoffice.org/2013/en/program/open-document-format/real-time-compatible-odf-change-tracking [16:05]  Svante Schubert: Off-topic still important for Office applications: Visual regression testing for offices (MS Office, LO/AO, Google Docs): http://conference.libreoffice.org/2013/en/program/open-document-format/a-multiplatform-tool-for-document-interoperability-testing [16:07]  Svante Schubert: Done by an expert of image processing, he print out on command line the test document as PDF, change to bitmap [16:07]  Svante Schubert: bye [16:07]  Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: bye [16:14] Svante Schubert: Source repository for the Visual Regression testing: https://gitorious.org/docmp

For the description of ODF XML test output and for the comparison of ODF XML of different applications an ODF normalization is useful. In our last meeting we listed already several points, where ODF XML may differ, but the ODF document not: Am 09.10.2013 16:18, schrieb Svante Schubert: [15:52]  Svante Schubert: Other examples of ODF variations of the same document lead to in different XML: [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 1) Order of automatic styles [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 2) automatic style names [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 3) text:space elements might be split or a single one (similar to span) [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 4) span can also be nested or split [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 5) Hyperlink can be split as well [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 6) Further existence of optional elements/attributes.. [15:55]  Svante Schubert: An implementation note: Nesting spans should be avoided it just makes things complicated (traversing recursivly content, searching for spans, inheriting.. etc.) In addition I would like to add that the text properties of an automatic paragraph style are equal to the text properties of an automatic text style, which uses a span embracing the full paragraph content. This will be mapped, when two paragraphs will be merged and the text properties of the automatic paragraph style of the second paragraph will be mapped as span around the remaining content of the second. In addition, whenever an ODF application does a Clear Formatting , which removes all the hard text attributes. The automatic text properties of automatic paragraph styles are being mapped to spans to the remaining uncleared area of the paragraph. Does anyone know further examples or categories of examples? Thanks, Svante

Am 14.10.2013 19:11, schrieb Svante Schubert: For the description of ODF XML test output and for the comparison of ODF XML of different applications an ODF normalization is useful. In our last meeting we listed already several points, where ODF XML may differ, but the ODF document not: Am 09.10.2013 16:18, schrieb Svante Schubert: [15:52]  Svante Schubert: Other examples of ODF variations of the same document lead to in different XML: [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 1) Order of automatic styles [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 2) automatic style names [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 3) text:space elements might be split or a single one (similar to span) [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 4) span can also be nested or split [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 5) Hyperlink can be split as well [15:52]  Svante Schubert: 6) Further existence of optional elements/attributes.. [15:55]  Svante Schubert: An implementation note: Nesting spans should be avoided it just makes things complicated (traversing recursivly content, searching for spans, inheriting.. etc.) In addition I would like to add that the text properties of an automatic paragraph style are equal to the text properties of an automatic text style, which uses a span embracing the full paragraph content. This will be mapped, when two paragraphs will be merged and the text properties of the automatic paragraph style of the second paragraph will be mapped as span around the remaining content of the second. In addition, whenever an ODF application does a Clear Formatting , which removes all the hard text attributes. The automatic text properties of automatic paragraph styles are being mapped to spans to the remaining uncleared area of the paragraph. Does anyone know further examples or categories of examples? I stumbled over a further example. If we have a table with 4 rows each row with a different cell number: 1 cell, 3 cells, 5 cells, 7 cells. The first row will have covered table cell elements, neither the position of those covered cells (before/after the single shown cell) nor the usage of the repeated attribute is defined and may vary from document to document, but the semantic would stay the same. Regards, Svante

<office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org> wrote on 10/14/2013 01:11:08 PM: > From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> > To: "office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org" <office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org> > Date: 10/14/2013 01:09 PM > Subject: [office-collab] Normalization of ODF XML (Earlier - Re: IRC > log from today's meeting - 2013-10-09) > Sent by: <office-collab@lists.oasis-open.org> > > For the description of ODF XML test output and for the comparison of > ODF XML of different applications an ODF normalization is useful. > > In our last meeting we listed already several points, where ODF XML > may differ, but the ODF document not: > > Am 09.10.2013 16:18, schrieb Svante Schubert: > [15:52] Svante Schubert: Other examples of ODF variations of the > same document lead to in different XML: > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 1) Order of automatic styles > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 2) automatic style names > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 3) text:space elements might be split or a > single one (similar to span) > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 4) span can also be nested or split > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 5) Hyperlink can be split as well > [15:52] Svante Schubert: 6) Further existence of optional elements/ > attributes.. > [15:55] Svante Schubert: An implementation note: Nesting spans > should be avoided it just makes things complicated (traversing > recursivly content, searching for spans, inheriting.. etc.) > In addition I would like to add that the text properties of an > automatic paragraph style are equal to the text properties of an > automatic text style, which uses a span embracing the full paragraph content. > > This will be mapped, when two paragraphs will be merged and the text > properties of the automatic paragraph style of the second paragraph > will be mapped as span around the remaining content of the second. > > In addition, whenever an ODF application does a "Clear Formatting", > which removes all the "hard" text attributes. The automatic text > properties of automatic paragraph styles are being mapped to spans > to the remaining "uncleared" area of the paragraph. > > Does anyone know further examples or categories of examples? > Of course there are all the lower level XML differences which are covered in the Canonical XML Recommendation: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-c14n Other things to think about: 1) Is a signed document the same document as an unsigned one?  (In general we might want to think about how signing works with CT.  For example, can you sign a document and then I sign only my changes?) 2) Are non-visible RDFa/RDF XML annotations considered changes? 3) Document level settings, e.g., zoom factor in a spreadsheet. 4) Removing stuff that is not referenced, e.g., removing a style that is not used. 5) Some spreadsheet functions are "volatile" and change values at every recalc, e.g., NOW() and RAND().  If I load a document and save it, the value of that cell changes.  But should that be a tracked change? Regards, -Rob > Thanks, > Svante