OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

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[office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

  • 1.  [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 12:28

    "Dave Pawson" <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote on 07/14/2008 07:31:22 AM:

    >
    > As a more general question, the standard should perhaps
    > provide an expected reaction by a version x application
    > to content in version x+n?
    >
    > Does such content fall into that defined in 1.5 (weak as it is)?
    > Ignore it?
    > Remove it if you want?
    >
    > What should a 1.2 application do with content from 2.0?
    >

    Perhaps we can add some language to ODF 1.2 for how an ODF 1.2 processor should process unknown elements from ODF 1.3.+.  However, we can't, in any formal way, tell an ODF 1.0 processor what to do with ODF 1.2 documents, since we cannot change the ODF 1.0 specification.

    As a practical matter, an ODF 1.0 processor has three choices when ODF 1.2 comes out:

    1) Do nothing, meaning it will either reject ODF 1.2 documents, or use some pre-existing generic fall-back mechanism, perhaps ignoring whatever it does not recognize.

    2) The authors of the application will make a minor update when ODF 1.2 comes out, perhaps setting an ODF12=true flag when loading the document and then doing some conditional processing of the document based on knowing it came from ODF 1.2.

    3) The authors of the application will make a major update, writing full native support for ODF 1.2, probably reusing much of their ODF 1.0/1.1 code.

    My impression was that most major ODF implementations were planning on #2 or #3.  Choice #1 will lead to data loss is some scenarios.  For example, ODF 1.2 has added table support to presentations, for accessibility.  If an ODF 1.0 processor comes upon a document with a table in a slide, I cannot imagine it will be satisfactorily rendered by any pre-existing fallback mechanism.

    -Rob


  • 2.  Re: [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 12:46
    2008/7/14  


  • 3.  Re: [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 13:04


    > 2008/7/14  <robert_weir@us.ibm.com>:
    > >
    > > "Dave Pawson" <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote on 07/14/2008 07:31:22 AM:
    >
    > >>
    > >> What should a 1.2 application do with content from 2.0?
    > >>
    > >
    > > Perhaps we can add some language to ODF 1.2 for how an ODF 1.2 processor
    > > should process unknown elements from ODF 1.3.+.  However, we can't, in any
    > > formal way, tell an ODF 1.0 processor what to do with ODF 1.2 documents,
    > > since we cannot change the ODF 1.0 specification.
    >
    > Lots of things the TC could do.
    >
    > If 1.2 defines a clear action on 'forwards compatibility'
    > that might act as  guidance for retroactive action on forwards compatability?
    >


    We have no shortage of ways of giving guidance.  But will they listen?  In particular, if an ODF 1.0 producer is not updating to ODF 1.2 in general, then  I'd have little expectation that they are monitoring our activities, or that they plan on changing their code based on our "guidance".  

    > I'll post a comment to the comments list if that might help getting it
    > on the TC's agenda.
    >
    > I see it as a shortcoming of the current spec.
    >

    Since you are a TC member, you could just ask for it to be added to the agenda.  That is the simplest way.

    -Rob


  • 4.  Re: [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 13:27
    2008/7/14  


  • 5.  Re: [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 14:03


    "Dave Pawson" <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote on 07/14/2008 09:26:24 AM:

    > 2008/7/14  <robert_weir@us.ibm.com>:
    >
    > >> If 1.2 defines a clear action on 'forwards compatibility'
    > >> that might act as  guidance for retroactive action on forwards
    > >> compatability?
    > >>
    > >
    > > We have no shortage of ways of giving guidance.  But will they listen?
    >
    > I'm not asking the TC for 'guidance'.
    > I'm asking for a 'shall' clause.
    > For forward compatibility if the version is greater than this then do X.
    > Nice and simple. Clear.
    > Seeks compliance or not.
    > *if* implementers want guidance it is available.
    > The TC can't do any more.
    >


    "guidance for retroactive action on forwards compatability" was your phrase not mine.

    We cannot introduce a new "shall" for ODF 1.0 processors.  We can't do that in ODF 1.2, and we cannot do that in ODF 1.0 errata if it amounts to a "substantive change".

    My additional assertion is that any ODF application that is stuck on ODF 1.0 level support is unlikely to be tracking this TC's work and will not observe any forwards-compatibility "guidance" from this TC, in whatever form it would take.


    -Rob


  • 6.  Re: [office] the simple proposal: forwards compatibility

    Posted 07-14-2008 14:18
    2008/7/14