More important the valuelisturn concept works perfectly as a way to reuse niem codelists inside EDXL messages.
Sent from my iPhone
David et al,
Just to comment on NIEM compliance, Don is basically correct.
OASIS is an international standards organization which cannot be constrained by
any single national effort from any nation. Now, we have and continue to work
very closely with NIEM to increase consistency, coordination and re-use. At
the very least, each EDXL standard is NIEM compliant by virtue of putting a
NIEM adaptor in place for each EDXL standard. In these cases the EDXL
standards drive compliance, and NIEM is not meant to “recreate” an existing
external standard.
In addition, the EM domain co-managed by S&T and FEMA
leveraging their formidable practitioner communities, continue to work with
NIEM to forward the cause for EDXL re-use of NIEM elements where appropriate as
new standards are developed, and also to add EDXL elements to the NIEM EM
domain to increase re-use value in NIEM (but again, NOT for the purpose of
every re-creating an external standard through a NIEM IEPD).
Finally, the ValueListURN serves the existing situation,
allowing groups of exchange partners to agree on their own code lists etc. and
leverage interoperability across their jurisdictions. It is understood that different
efforts may choose to enlist different value lists, but it’s a trade-off
between this and the fact that no one is far enough along to gain global agreement
in all cases.
Thanks,
Tim Grapes
Evotec
"The only thing we take into the next life is our
character"
From: McGarry, Donald P.
[mailto:dmcgarry@mitre.org]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 12:11 PM
To: David RR Webber (XML); Lee Tincher
Cc: 'Lewis Leinenweber'; 'Dwarkanath,Sukumar - INTL';
emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released
Schemas
1.
Althogh NIEM compliance is “nice”…we are building International
Standards here…and should not be NIEM-centric
2.
The any namespace may be good for extensibility…but it is not
good for actually being able to process the XML data. Using any creates
yet another scenario where we need a developer pow-wow ahead of time.
This is not a model we should be striving to. A system should be able to process
(not just read) all fields of the standards that we produce. Use of any tags
are good for signature type things and other implementation specific elements
that have no bearing on the data in the message whatsoever…or they are good for
doing debugging to determine what fields to add in the next version of the
standard. Looks like that is what Lee has done for us here.
3.
Over-use of any moves to the model of a computer as a telephone
rather than as a processing engine….
From: David RR Webber
(XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 12:04 PM
To: Lee Tincher
Cc: 'Lewis Leinenweber'; 'Dwarkanath,Sukumar - INTL'; McGarry, Donald
P.; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released
Schemas
<ParameterName>
<Value> keyword concept
That is definitely not NIEM compliant nor is it good for long term
interoperability. Better is an extensible payload area with type of ##any
- or even better using the NIEM extension mechanism to provide an extension
schema for these new pieces. Those can then be simply incorporated in the
next standard schema.
HAVE EDXL is a half-way house at the moment - some parts are
following NIEM - others not so much.
Obviously its a balancing act - but I would suggest where NIEM has
good mechanisms for implementing these needs - that those techniques
should be considered first. This also allows just to provide guidelines
to developers - that then can then use when they encounter these situations.
Original Message
--------
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs.
Released Schemas
From: "Lee Tincher" <ltincher@evotecinc.com>
Date: Mon, March 15, 2010 9:34 am
To: "'Dwarkanath, Sukumar - INTL'" <Sukumar_Dwarkanath@sra.com>,
<dmcgarry@mitre.org>,
<emergency@lists.oasis-open.org>
Cc: "'Lewis Leinenweber'" <lleinenweber@evotecinc.com>
That’s exactly what we did (with an interspersing of
<comment> tags as well)…The problem is in the definition of the Value
Name vs. the Value – we just used an “=” sign – but that means coders have more
work to do outside of XML Parsers.
The <ParameterName> <Value> keyword concept used in
CAP, DE, RM and SitReps would have been much easier to deal with…maybe a
consideration for the next release?
I have attached the DRAFT that we have been using – it is only a
Draft so please do not pass this around outside of OASIS….it includes a sample
XML at the end…
The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think,
than what to think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to think
for ourselves, than to load the memory with thoughts of other men. ~Bill
Beattie
Lee,
This is good feedback and will be helpful - I am sure you have already looked
at it, but ResourcesInformationText was added as a flexible alternative and can
be used for most of the items in the short term.
Thanks
Sukumar
Original Message-----
From: Lee Tincher <ltincher@evotecinc.com>
To: 'McGarry, Donald P.' <dmcgarry@mitre.org>; Dwarkanath, Sukumar -
INTL; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org <emergency@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Sun Mar 14 17:22:17 2010
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released
Schemas
Slightly off topic – but I think relevant to this discussion…I would like to
see some placements of the “keyword” concept into HAVE to better handle
extension of existing lists and ability of new Managed Lists. Below is a
bulleted list of items we found necessary to support the Haiti Relief
efforts…another problem is that in a disaster we are primarily dealing with
“Health Facilities” and not just Hospitals (e.g. Clinics, Damaged/Partially
operating facilities, Tent or MASH style units, converted elderly care
facilities….)
In addition specific desires for information not included in the HAVE
specification was determined. These included:
· Information Blood
Products
· Information on Ancillary
Services
· Information on Laboratory
Services
· Information on Pharmacy
Services
· Status and capacity
information on Rehab Services
· Accessibility by Road
· 24/7 Emergency Room
capabilities
· Adult Ventilator capabilities
and availability
· Pediatric Ventilator
capabilities and availability
· General Medicine capabilities
· Is there adequate Nursing
staff?
· Number of available skilled
Nurses
· Are there adequate Medical
Providers (available physicians and mid-level)?
· Number of available Medical
Providers
· Are there adequate Surgical
Teams?
· Number of available Surgical
Teams
· Structural Damage?
· Water Shortage?
· Power Shortage?
· Comments on demographic
information
· Previously reported
demographics information is confirmed?
· Internet Access Available?
· Email Available?
· Phone Service Available?
In addition further restrictions apply to the following HAVE elements:
·
HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/Addresses this is free text,
but to specify the the "Seccion Communal" use "Seccion= [Name of
Seccion Communal]"
·
HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/SubAdministrativeArea
Use "Commune= [Commune Name]"
·
HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/SubAdministrativeArea
Use "Arrondissement= [Arrondissement Name]"
·
HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/NameElement
"[Department Name]"
· HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationGeoLocation/gml:point/gml:pos
restricted to 4 decimal places
Thanks,
Lee
The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think, than what to
think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to think for ourselves,
than to load the memory with thoughts of other men. ~Bill Beattie