OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

Expand all | Collapse all

Jeff's (Arbortext) comments on the DITA 1.1 Architectural Spec...

  • 1.  Jeff's (Arbortext) comments on the DITA 1.1 Architectural Spec...

    Posted 01-22-2007 23:16
      |   view attached

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    ditaspec22Jan2007bjco.pdf   1.50 MB 1 version


  • 2.  Re: [dita] Jeff's (Arbortext) comments on the DITA 1.1 Architectural Spec...

    Posted 01-23-2007 00:13

    Re:
    >Chunking would be better controlled by something that is aware of the
    >output type; building information that is likely to be output type
    >dependent into the DITA map, or worse the DITA topics, is a mistake.


    Note that maps are aware of output type to some degree, eg there are print and linking attributes in the map. Given that high-level structures (such as TOCs or linking maps) are likely to vary from output type to output type, the DITA map/topic dichotomy is explicitly meant to insulate topics from output-specific decisions in maps. It seems to me that the chunk attribute is logically something that belongs in the map because it is the same kind of output-specific decision as whether/how to link, etc.

    That still leaves the question of whether the default should be based on source chunking rules or on programmatic rules. This may come down to a question of what the author's primary experience is:

    - if coming from an HTML or online help background, chunking source and output as the same by default should feel pretty natural: it's the way HTML websites are authored, it's a familiar set of defaults, and the chunk attributes provides additional control that you'll only need when you get into reusing contexts.

    - if coming from a print or PDF background, all that source chunking probably seems like a lot of work, and given that the information is often sourced in chapter-sized files, the resulting proliferation of topic chunks probably seems much more complex. So a rule-based system is much more attractive, and the chunk attribute seems like pointless overhead that introduces needless complexity.

    So: what happens when we get two collections that have been authored with different assumptions in mind? How do we preserve the fact that one collection was authored with the chunks chosen for output effect, and another collection was authored with the chunks chosen purely for internal reasons?  The chunk attribute seems like one way we could set/expose this behavior - for example, set overall rules on the map element, and leave it to the map-authoring application to set the map-level chunk attribute based on the rules implicit in the current authoring/production system. This might add the need for a new chunk attribute value, eg "topic", to set chunking to generate a separate output file for each topic.

    That still leaves the question open as to what the default should be (topic, or file) - but it does provide a way for the two chunking methodologies to co-exist peacefully. CMSs that burst at the topic level, for example, would simply make sure the map chunk attribute was set to chunk="topic", and leave it to the author to define, within the map, what exceptions there were to that rule.

    Michael Priestley
    IBM DITA Architect and Classification Schema PDT Lead
    mpriestl@ca.ibm.com
    http://dita.xml.org/blog/25



    "Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com>

    01/22/2007 06:14 PM

    To
    <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
    cc
    Subject
    [dita] Jeff's (Arbortext) comments on the DITA 1.1 Architectural Spec...





    ...are attached (annotated PDF--I hope this will make it through the
    OASIS mailer).

    Some of them are very editorial, but others are more major.

    We are still working on the language spec.

    Much as we'd all like to get 1.1 out, there have been some major things
    (like the chunking writeup) that we've only recently had a chance to
    review.

    Arbortext has a concern with the fact that DITA 1.1 chunking support
    calls for the default behavior to preserve the authored chunking as
    represented by files.  It might be OK to have this behavior be one of
    the options that is supported, but we do not believe it is a good
    default (even if it is how the DITA Open Toolkit works today).  Chunking
    should not be controlled by the topic author.  Chunking should be a rule
    based process that is driven forward by hints provided in the map.  And
    bursting documents into a CMS confuses this whole business even more.

    The current DITA 1.1 approach to chunking doesn't seem to have the right
    split of control between the map, topics, and output processing.
    Chunking would be better controlled by something that is aware of the
    output type; building information that is likely to be output type
    dependent into the DITA map, or worse the DITA topics, is a mistake.
    Chunking would be better controlled from the ditaval file or a style
    sheet, possibly using hints in the document.

    FWIW, we also remain uneasy about including ditaval in the DITA 1.1
    spec.  Reread the ditaval section in the Architecture Spec makes it
    clear that ditaval is too much about formatting rather than content and
    so does not belong in the DITA Standard in its current form.  For
    example it has the ability to control color, underline, italics, bold,
    and specific instructions on how to flag an image.  All of that should
    be controlled by a stylesheet and not embedded in the ditaval file.  The
    ditaval file might reference a style name or property to use in some
    fashion, but the details should be left to other processes that know the
    output type and other information related to the final format.

    paul
    [attachment "ditaspec22Jan2007bjco.pdf" deleted by Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM]



  • 3.  Re: [dita] Jeff's (Arbortext) comments on the DITA 1.1 ArchitecturalSpec...

    Posted 01-24-2007 00:28
    
    
      
      
    
    
    No one has followed up on our chunking discussion
    in today's meeting yet, so while it's still on my mind I thought I'd
    offer my two cents.

    I agree with Paul that the description of the chunk attribute should be more toolkit neutral, and not refer to files as the privileged repositories of chunked topics - since some of us store our documents in CMS and other database systems.

    On the other hand, as Michael pointed out we do need - not so much a "chunk," as a "do-not-chunk" attribute.

    Otherwise no automated process is going to know not to chunk topics embedded in other topics to form section-like structures that are not intended to stand on their own - which is the compromise we've built into the standard for these kind of structures.

    --Dana

    Grosso, Paul wrote:
    ...are attached (annotated PDF--I hope this will make it through the
    OASIS mailer).
    
    Some of them are very editorial, but others are more major.
    
    We are still working on the language spec.
    
    Much as we'd all like to get 1.1 out, there have been some major things
    (like the chunking writeup) that we've only recently had a chance to
    review.
    
    Arbortext has a concern with the fact that DITA 1.1 chunking support
    calls for the default behavior to preserve the authored chunking as
    represented by files.  It might be OK to have this behavior be one of
    the options that is supported, but we do not believe it is a good
    default (even if it is how the DITA Open Toolkit works today).  Chunking
    should not be controlled by the topic author.  Chunking should be a rule
    based process that is driven forward by hints provided in the map.  And
    bursting documents into a CMS confuses this whole business even more.
    
    The current DITA 1.1 approach to chunking doesn't seem to have the right
    split of control between the map, topics, and output processing.
    Chunking would be better controlled by something that is aware of the
    output type; building information that is likely to be output type
    dependent into the DITA map, or worse the DITA topics, is a mistake.
    Chunking would be better controlled from the ditaval file or a style
    sheet, possibly using hints in the document.
    
    FWIW, we also remain uneasy about including ditaval in the DITA 1.1
    spec.  Reread the ditaval section in the Architecture Spec makes it
    clear that ditaval is too much about formatting rather than content and
    so does not belong in the DITA Standard in its current form.  For
    example it has the ability to control color, underline, italics, bold,
    and specific instructions on how to flag an image.  All of that should
    be controlled by a stylesheet and not embedded in the ditaval file.  The
    ditaval file might reference a style name or property to use in some
    fashion, but the details should be left to other processes that know the
    output type and other information related to the final format.
    
    paul