OpenDocument - Adv Document Collab SC

Conference Call has been added by Robin LaFontaine Date: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 Time: 01:30pm - 02:30pm GMT Event Description: Participant Code: 84367726

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Agenda: Agenda

The purpose of the call is to review progress since last call and determine where further work is needed.

1. Roll call
2. Scope of CT
- spreadsheets, rest of ODF, 'Revision'/'Edit' Tracking
3. Backward compatibility
4. GCT Issues
5. ECT Issues
6. RDF
7. Way forward
8. Any other business
Minutes: View event details: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=30688 PLEASE NOTE: If the above link does not work for you, your email application may be breaking the link into two pieces. You may be able to copy and paste the entire link address into the address field of your web browser. BEGIN:VCALENDAR
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STATUS:TENTATIVE
DTSTAMP:20110523T000000Z
DTSTART:20110531T133000Z
DTEND:20110531T143000Z
SEQUENCE:0
SUMMARY:Conference Call
DESCRIPTION:Participant Code: 84367726

Access
Numbers
--------------------------
USA Toll-Free: 888-426-6840
USA
Caller Paid: 215-861-6239

Belgium: 0800-3-9022
Canada:
888-426-6840
China: 10-800-711-1071 (CHINA NETCOM GROUP USERS
)
China: 10-800-110-0996 (CHINA TELECOM SOUTH USERS)
Finland:
0800-9-18357
Germany: 0800-000-1018
Netherlands:
0-800-363-6036
Norway: 800-16771
UK: 0800-368-0638

Codes for
other countries are listed
here:

https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=84367726&accessNumber=2158616239

Press
*6 to mute/unmute line

Chat room for meeting is at:
http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/odf

Group: OpenDocument -
Advanced Document Collaboration SC
Creator: Robin LaFontaine
URL: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=30688
UID: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=30688
END:VEVENT
END:VCALENDAR

Here are some notes on our call, thanks to Tristan for taking these, though I have edited so take responsibility for any errors. They are not official minutes (which we do not take in a subcommittee) but may be useful to those who were not able to make the call. Thanks to all those who were able to attend, especially those for whom it was unreasonably early in the morning (after a holiday) or unreasonably late at night. Tristan and John have already uploaded documents showing some sample use cases to be worked out in both formats, thanks for those. Others are free to suggest use case examples also. PRESENT ----------- Robin La Fontaine (chair) Andreas Guelzow Ben Martin John Haug Rob Weir Dennis Hamilton Tristan Mitchell Doug Mahugh SCOPE --------- Rob categorised things as mandatory and nice to have. Mandatory was any change that can currently be expressed in ODF 1.2 plus filling in 'gaps' Nice to have are other use cases such as tracking change in a presentation chart. It was not clear where the line is drawn between these two categories, perhaps JIRA issues for mandatory? Andreas agreed to highlight important areas for change tracking in spreadsheets Rob commented that if table change tracking is defined well in ODT, this could also be applied to spreadsheet tables. Spreadsheets are effectively ODT Tables + It may be useful to distinguish between 'Edit tracking' and 'Revision tracking' where: 'Edit tracking' is the ability to record edits made in an editing application in order that they can be viewed, accepted or rejected at a later date. 'Revision tracking' is the ability to record changes to a document such that these changes can be displayed in a document viewer, but there is no requirement that the changes can be undone. BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY ------------------------------------------- No specific requirements for backwards compatibility but it was of course desirable to keep from breaking it unless strictly necessary. Rob said we should not wait for TC guidelines on design as they may take some time to produce. Dennis mentioned that bugs in certain implementations can seem like backwards compatibility issues but that they should not be considered. GENERIC CT ------------------- We have established that the implementations were made independently and were not part of a single or collaborative effort. Ordering Rob asked if the format encoded change dependency and ordering. It was pointed out that it doesn't do any more than give the order of occurrence of changes. Ben commented that there are cases where changes appear to overlap but could be applied individually e.g. making a word in a sentence italic and then making the sentence bold. It should be possible to reject just the italicisation. There were conflicting views as to whether dependency/ordering belongs in the format or should be calculated by a reading application. The current format (1.2) has no ordering specified. John mentioned that nothing had been done to change this in the Extended CT proposal. Rob felt that ordering and dependency is itself dependent on defining what the editing operations are. Certain editing operations may imply dependency e.g. if a paragraph is modified and then deleted, you cannot reject the modification without first rejecting the deletion. Constraints It was agreed that it would be very useful to drill down into a few specific examples. John and Tristan will supply the examples. Rob was hopeful that this may expose problems in one or the other of the proposals making a decision about which one to use more simple. EXTENDED CT --------------------- John said that he feels the list of editing operations at the start of their proposal is a complete list. Discussion on granularity and buckets. Nothing new was mentioned here. RDF ------ Ben mentioned that after trying out some worked examples, he didn't see a real advantage to use RDF to store changes. Rob said that if an advantage could be found then it may be useful to look into. Aside: Ben commented on the 'buckets' in the ECT saying that if there were several versions of a bucket due to multiple changes, it would be computationally very expensive (and difficult) to calculate the precise changes if you wanted / were able to display what they were. On 23/05/2011 16:53, robin.lafontaine@deltaxml.com wrote: Conference Call has been added by Robin LaFontaine Date: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 Time: 01:30pm - 02:30pm GMT Event Description: Participant Code: 84367726 Access Numbers -------------------------- USA Toll-Free: 888-426-6840 USA Caller Paid: 215-861-6239 Belgium: 0800-3-9022 Canada: 888-426-6840 China: 10-800-711-1071 (CHINA NETCOM GROUP USERS ) China: 10-800-110-0996 (CHINA TELECOM SOUTH USERS) Finland: 0800-9-18357 Germany: 0800-000-1018 Netherlands: 0-800-363-6036 Norway: 800-16771 UK: 0800-368-0638 Codes for other countries are listed here: https://www.teleconference.att.com/servlet/glbAccess?process=1&accessCode=84367726&accessNumber=2158616239 Press *6 to mute/unmute line Chat room for meeting is at: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/odf Agenda: Agenda The purpose of the call is to review progress since last call and determine where further work is needed. 1. Roll call 2. Scope of CT - spreadsheets, rest of ODF, 'Revision'/'Edit' Tracking 3. Backward compatibility 4. GCT Issues 5. ECT Issues 6. RDF 7. Way forward 8. Any other business Minutes: View event details: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office-collab/event.php?event_id=30688 PLEASE NOTE: If the above link does not work for you, your email application may be breaking the link into two pieces. You may be able to copy and paste the entire link address into the address field of your web browser. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robin La Fontaine, Director, DeltaXML Ltd Change control for XML T: +44 1684 592 144 E: robin.lafontaine@deltaxml.com http://www.deltaxml.com Registered in England 02528681 Reg. Office: Monsell House, WR8 0QN, UK