OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

Greetings! You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the second public review! I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly if this is what we want to showcase as our work. Top of the agenda for next week. Hope everyone is having a great week! Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> , Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal documentation In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a HTML publication format. , so it removes my concern that the inclusion of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, except for... The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: Part 3: - HTML for Section 20.27 chart:interpolation is really badly scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note where for all ) and lots of dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. Part 4: Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines below TABLE 29 - Linest (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. Below the text and define the following matrices: , the PDF shows three matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. Just below that, the PDF has the text: - Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as described below. (and several lines, below, the text These a,b1, ,bn The HTML shows the same text as: - Let X^T If X^T X These a,b1, ,bn The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. ************************** So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues with math? Best regards, Paul On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > wrote: Hi Patrick, Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the season. I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can reply. Paul, the ticket is https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. Best, /chet On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Chet, Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA queue in ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you use for tickets. So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my ankles. After years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! Patrick -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- /chet ---------------- Chet Ensign Chief Technical Community Steward OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: Greetings! You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the second public review! I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly if this is what we want to showcase as our work. Top of the agenda for next week. Hope everyone is having a great week! Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net>, Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, except for... The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: Part 3: - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. Part 4: Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines below TABLE 29 - Linest (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. Just below that, the PDF has the text: - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" The HTML shows the same text as: - "Let X^T If X^T X These a,b1, ,bn" The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas appearing after the first math expression in a sentence. ************************** So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues with math? Best regards, Paul On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org < mailto:chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: Hi Patrick, Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the season. I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can reply. Paul, the ticket is https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. Best, /chet On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net < mailto:patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: Chet, Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA queue in ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you use for tickets. So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my ankles. After years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! Patrick -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net < mailto:patrick@durusau.net > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- /chet ---------------- Chet Ensign Chief Technical Community Steward OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 -- Paul Knight < mailto:paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the information society

Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

Svante, If the links point to the fixed version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is fixed? All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. Hope you are having a great week! Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format. , so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 chart:interpolation is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note where for all ) and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text and define the following matrices: , the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below. (and several lines, below, the text These a,b1, ,bn > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the "fixed" version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is "fixed?" All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion "beyond poor"? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau

Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the "fixed" version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is "fixed?" All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion "beyond poor"? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau

Hi Patrick, I fixed the problem and even improved the line indentation - you will love it! :-) https://svanteschubert.github.io/odf-tc/odf1.3/csd03/OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part3-schema.html#property-chart_interpolation Better than ever! o/ Can we now proceed with starting the public review process? The HTML never were normative and we will not gain anything from doing another poll/discussion and putting manually new dates in all our deliverables files. @Patrick Durusau Please tell Paul to continue in our JIRA issue . Thanks in advance, Svante Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the "fixed" version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is "fixed?" All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion "beyond poor"? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau

Svante, So, you discovered the misuse of the block element. I saw that yesterday when comparing the ODF and HTML code for MathML. Did you fix it in part 4 as well? I'll notify the TC Admin of the answer to their concerns if you provide links to the new versions. I was going to work on the block mis-use this morning but you beat me to it. Thanks! Patrick On 9/10/20 10:31 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi Patrick, I fixed the problem and even improved the line indentation - you will love it! :-) https://svanteschubert.github.io/odf-tc/odf1.3/csd03/OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part3-schema.html#property-chart_interpolation Better than ever! o/ Can we now proceed with starting the public review process? The HTML never were normative and we will not gain anything from doing another poll/discussion and putting manually new dates in all our deliverables files. @Patrick Durusau Please tell Paul to continue in our JIRA issue . Thanks in advance, Svante Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the fixed version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is fixed? All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion beyond poor ? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format. , so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 chart:interpolation is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note where for all ) and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text and define the following matrices: , the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below. (and several lines, below, the text These a,b1, ,bn > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Hi Patrick, Fixed in all versions and ZIP provided, take a look at the end of: JIRA issue: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Best regards, Svante PS: Yes, this block misuse - at least mine with a div - was meant as a trick to emulate floating of content aside of a frame, at least that is what I figured out when I read the comments of this old XSL code correctly. I can not remember any details of this feature, I programmed about 15 years ago. Would be great to have the test files from earlier aside, so it is a lot of guessing. Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 16:40 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, So, you discovered the misuse of the "block" element. I saw that yesterday when comparing the ODF and HTML code for MathML. Did you fix it in part 4 as well? I'll notify the TC Admin of the answer to their concerns if you provide links to the new versions. I was going to work on the block mis-use this morning but you beat me to it. Thanks! Patrick On 9/10/20 10:31 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi Patrick, I fixed the problem and even improved the line indentation - you will love it! :-) https://svanteschubert.github.io/odf-tc/odf1.3/csd03/OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part3-schema.html#property-chart_interpolation Better than ever! o/ Can we now proceed with starting the public review process? The HTML never were normative and we will not gain anything from doing another poll/discussion and putting manually new dates in all our deliverables files. @Patrick Durusau Please tell Paul to continue in our JIRA issue . Thanks in advance, Svante Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the "fixed" version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is "fixed?" All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion "beyond poor"? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau

Paul, It looks like Svante has corrected the formatting issues with math in parts 3 and 4 of ODF, for the HTML version. Links to the corrected versions are at: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Please review and advise if the corrected version meet your concerns. If so, please proceed with the requested public review. Thanks! Hope you are having a great week! Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [office] Fwd: Status on ODF second review request? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 16:46:40 +0200 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> CC: office@lists.oasis-open.org <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, Fixed in all versions and ZIP provided, take a look at the end of: JIRA issue: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Best regards, Svante PS: Yes, this block misuse - at least mine with a div - was meant as a trick to emulate floating of content aside of a frame, at least that is what I figured out when I read the comments of this old XSL code correctly. I can not remember any details of this feature, I programmed about 15 years ago. Would be great to have the test files from earlier aside, so it is a lot of guessing. Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 16:40 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, So, you discovered the misuse of the block element. I saw that yesterday when comparing the ODF and HTML code for MathML. Did you fix it in part 4 as well? I'll notify the TC Admin of the answer to their concerns if you provide links to the new versions. I was going to work on the block mis-use this morning but you beat me to it. Thanks! Patrick On 9/10/20 10:31 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi Patrick, I fixed the problem and even improved the line indentation - you will love it! :-) https://svanteschubert.github.io/odf-tc/odf1.3/csd03/OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part3-schema.html#property-chart_interpolation Better than ever! o/ Can we now proceed with starting the public review process? The HTML never were normative and we will not gain anything from doing another poll/discussion and putting manually new dates in all our deliverables files. @Patrick Durusau Please tell Paul to continue in our JIRA issue . Thanks in advance, Svante Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the fixed version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is fixed? All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion beyond poor ? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format. , so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 chart:interpolation is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note where for all ) and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text and define the following matrices: , the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below. (and several lines, below, the text These a,b1, ,bn > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau Attachment: signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Hi all, This looks great! By far the best HTML representation I've seen so far in Version 1.3. I think this is a real milestone, since the HTML format is the most accessible and usable for a wide audience, even if it is not the "Authoritative" format. Thank you, especially to Svante Schubert for this improvement. Proceeding with publication... Best regards, Paul On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:00 AM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Paul, It looks like Svante has corrected the formatting issues with math in parts 3 and 4 of ODF, for the HTML version. Links to the corrected versions are at: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Please review and advise if the corrected version meet your concerns. If so, please proceed with the requested public review. Thanks! Hope you are having a great week! Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [office] Fwd: Status on ODF second review request? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 16:46:40 +0200 From: Svante Schubert <svante.schubert@gmail.com> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> CC: office@lists.oasis-open.org <office@lists.oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, Fixed in all versions and ZIP provided, take a look at the end of: JIRA issue: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Best regards, Svante PS: Yes, this block misuse - at least mine with a div - was meant as a trick to emulate floating of content aside of a frame, at least that is what I figured out when I read the comments of this old XSL code correctly. I can not remember any details of this feature, I programmed about 15 years ago. Would be great to have the test files from earlier aside, so it is a lot of guessing. Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 16:40 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, So, you discovered the misuse of the "block" element. I saw that yesterday when comparing the ODF and HTML code for MathML. Did you fix it in part 4 as well? I'll notify the TC Admin of the answer to their concerns if you provide links to the new versions. I was going to work on the block mis-use this morning but you beat me to it. Thanks! Patrick On 9/10/20 10:31 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi Patrick, I fixed the problem and even improved the line indentation - you will love it! :-) https://svanteschubert.github.io/odf-tc/odf1.3/csd03/OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part3-schema.html#property-chart_interpolation Better than ever! o/ Can we now proceed with starting the public review process? The HTML never were normative and we will not gain anything from doing another poll/discussion and putting manually new dates in all our deliverables files. @Patrick Durusau Please tell Paul to continue in our JIRA issue . Thanks in advance, Svante Am Do., 10. Sept. 2020 um 09:29 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Patrick, Can you please give Paul the clearance to continue with the CSD03 review publication (in the issue ) so we do not lose any further time for ODF1.3 and I will take a look into the remaining XHTML XSLT issue meanwhile? Thanks in advance, Svante Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Svante Schubert < svante.schubert@gmail.com >: Hi Patrick, Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 17:36 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Svante, If the links point to the "fixed" version, can you explain how 20.27 chart:interpolation is "fixed?" All the content maybe there, I haven't checked that closely, but the presentation is beyond poor. Sure, let me spend some time taking (and showing you) some pictures... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's start with the ODF 1.3 CSD03 PDF as ground-truth : -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let's move in timely order starting with ODF 1.2 using MathML images instead of searchable MathML: In ODF 1.3 CS01 the MathML had to be viewed for Chrome (incapable of viewing MathML XML out-of-the-box by a script) Unfortunately, the script URL as given as HTTP instead of HTTPS and is blocked by Chrome: Finally, the version for ODF 1.3 CSD03 of today, that uses a line break for each Mathml as all HTML versions before. Now explain to me please, what exactly is in your opinion "beyond poor"? Even more, if you like to enhance something, I would be happy if you as an editor would come up with a GitHub pull request of a fix instead of just pointing vaguely with a finger. Thanks in advance, Patrick! :-) BTW, we don't use precedent in standards, that is something done incorrectly once can be repeated in the future. We leave that for lawyers. You are mistaken, please remember that: OASIS told us in our conference call... OASIS pointed it out in the mailing list ... OASIS has recently made it acceptable to perform editorial (non-material [ 1 ]) changes AFTER approval by the TC (before publication), OASIS mentioned in the issue ... ...that ( since 2018 ) there are post-editorial changes possible! Makes perfect sense to me to allow fixing editorial issues that had been found in the review phase. [1] https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/oasis-defined-terms-2018-05-22#dMaterialChange Hope you are having a great week! Igualmente! Svante Patrick On 9/9/20 11:12 AM, Svante Schubert wrote: Hi everyone, I have fixed the problems , which Paul had mentioned and we should continue/start with the public review. Best regards, Svante PS: Regina's anchor problem is a problem without content loss and just resulting in multiple lines where there should be one. This HTML problem existed in ODF 1.2 & ODF 1.3 CD1, therefore a nice update for ODF 1.4 ;-) Am Mi., 9. Sept. 2020 um 01:53 Uhr schrieb Regina Henschel < regina.henschel@libreoffice.org >: Hi Patrick, there are indeed problems with the XSLT. It is not specific to MathML, but happens too with frames with text. If the frame is anchored as character, only the first frame is exported. You can test it with a text document with one paragraph which has several frames anchored as character. I'm not very familiar with XSLT. Perhaps Michael or Svante have an idea. Kind regards Regina Patrick Durusau schrieb am 08-Sep-20 um 23:26: > Greetings! > > You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the > second public review! > > I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. > > Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. > > I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly > if this is what we want to showcase as our work. > > Top of the agenda for next week. > > Hope everyone is having a great week! > > Patrick > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 > From: Paul Knight < paul.knight@oasis-open.org > > To: Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >, Chet Ensign > < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: > - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the > three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with > the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal > documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet > community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a > HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion > of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a > misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) > - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, > except for... > > The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious > in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed > with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. > > A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: > > Part 3: > - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly > scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of > dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. > > Part 4: > > Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling > the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. > A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). > Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines > below TABLE 29 - Linest > (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor > discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. > > Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three > matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. > Just below that, the PDF has the text: > - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the > matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, > then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as > described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" > > The HTML shows the same text as: > - "Let > X^T > If > X^T X > These a,b1, ,bn" > The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas > appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. > ************************** > > So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues > with math? > > Best regards, > Paul > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > <mailto: chet.ensign@oasis-open.org >> wrote: > > Hi Patrick, > > Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I > finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the > season. > > I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can > reply. Paul, the ticket is > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 > > Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. > > Best, > > /chet > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > <mailto: patrick@durusau.net >> wrote: > > Chet, > > Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA > queue in > ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you > use for > tickets. > > So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? > > I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my > ankles. After > years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. > > Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! > > Patrick > > -- > Patrick Durusau > patrick@durusau.net <mailto: patrick@durusau.net > > Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) > Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 > Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) > > Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net > Homepage: http://www.durusau.net > Twitter: patrickDurusau > > > > > -- > > /chet > ---------------- > Chet Ensign > Chief Technical Community Steward > OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information > society > http://www.oasis-open.org > > Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 > > > > -- > Paul Knight <mailto: paul.knight@oasis-open.org >....Document Process > Analyst < https://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/paul-knight > > OASIS < https://www.oasis-open.org/ > - Advancing open standards for the > information society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society

Dear TC members, I have created an editorial GitHub issue: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/odf-tc/issues/28 And asked Paul if it is possible to fix this editorial issue of the HTML none-administrative during the public review and adjust this meanwhile/afterwards. There is no doubt we all agree that this has to be fixed before becoming a standard. At least it is not a new regression, the same issue existed in CD01: https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/cs01/part4-formula/OpenDocument-v1.3-cs01-part4-formula.html#__RefHeading__1018704_715980110 As long no one opposes, I would suggest we continue our public review as planned! Thanks, Svante Am Di., 8. Sept. 2020 um 23:26 Uhr schrieb Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net >: Greetings! You will be glad to know that the TC Admin did reach our request for the second public review! I inquired about our status and got the email below from Paul Knight. Looking at the HTML parts he suggests, it is really wretched. I asked him to hold off publishing until I could ask the TC explicitly if this is what we want to showcase as our work. Top of the agenda for next week. Hope everyone is having a great week! Patrick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Status on ODF second review request? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:55:03 -0400 From: Paul Knight <paul.knight@oasis-open.org> To: Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> , Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org> Hi Patrick, I just took a quick look at the files, and have a few observations: - just looking at the files, I wondered about the HTML versions of the three RNG files. This is new. No problem, we'll include them along with the other files into /schemas subdirectory. (I see internal documentation "In order to meet the evolving needs of the Internet community, the XML grammar RNG files will be rendered as well into a HTML publication format.", so it removes my concern that the inclusion of these RNG-HTML files might have been triggered by a misinterpretation of OASIS publication requirements...) - In general, the files look very good, probably ready to publish, except for... The HTML representation of mathematical expressions is still atrocious in many instances. So I'd like to verify whether the TC wants to proceed with publishing these HTML files as-is, or try to work on this. A couple of examples are in Part 3 and Part 4: Part 3: - HTML for Section 20.27 "chart:interpolation" is really badly scrambled, with apparent repetitions (note "where for all") and lots of dropped math expressions - when compared to the PDF or ODT. Part 4: Part 4 shows very serious corruption of the HTML version, in handling the presentation of some of the more complicated mathematical formulas. A good example is seen in 6.18.41 (LINEST). Compare the PDF format with the HTML format, beginning several lines below TABLE 29 - Linest (OpenDocument-v1.3-csd03-part4-formula.html#refTable28) [also note minor discrepancy in the name of the tag - 28 vs 29]. Below the text "and define the following matrices:", the PDF shows three matrices, but the HTML only shows the first of these three matrices. Just below that, the PDF has the text: - "Let X^T denote the transpose of X, see TRANSPOSE 6.5.6. Then the matrix product X^T X is a square matrix. If X^T X is not invertible, then LINEST shall either return an error or calculate a result as described below." (and several lines, below, the text "These a,b1, ,bn" The HTML shows the same text as: - "Let X^T If X^T X These a,b1, ,bn" The HTML appears to simply discard big blocks of text and formulas appearing after the first math _expression_ in a sentence. ************************** So - proceed with publishing this as-is, or try to fix the HTML issues with math? Best regards, Paul On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 9:27 AM Chet Ensign < chet.ensign@oasis-open.org > wrote: Hi Patrick, Hope you had a happy day off. Beautiful weather up here and I finally got my boat set up, in time for the last 2 months of the season. I think Paul has been checking it out but copying him here so he can reply. Paul, the ticket is https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/TCADMIN-3793 Patrick, generally we take them in rank order. Best, /chet On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 5:15 PM Patrick Durusau < patrick@durusau.net > wrote: Chet, Cleaning off my desk a bit and had mistakely look at your JIRA queue in ticket # order. Then I thought I don't understand what order you use for tickets. So, just curious where we might be on the second request for ODF? I've got a funded TC member whose job it is to gnaw on my ankles. After years of my supporting them in the TC. Shrugs, it's of no moment. Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend! Patrick -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau -- /chet ---------------- Chet Ensign Chief Technical Community Steward OASIS: Advancing open source & open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org Mobile: +1 201-341-1393 -- Paul Knight ... . Document Process Analyst OASIS - Advancing open standards for the information society