OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

  • 1.  Re: [office] lists, can we wrap it up?

    Posted 03-23-2007 11:45
    Hi Thomas
    
    > Given two different implementations of ODF, which have different ways to 
    > internally do numbering. Are they in violation of the spec if they show 
    > different numbers for the list-items ?
    
    Hey --- I understood your question correctly :-)
    
    This is exactly one thing I want the TC to clarify.
    
    My customers/users tell me YES. It is unacceptable for them if one APP tell them
    1 P1
    1.1 P2
    1.2 P3
    and the second app tells them
    1 P1
    1.10 P2
    1.11 P3
    
    I really value for question because I think this is a very important one which has consequences far beyond numbering,
    since my customers/users tell me also that it is unaccetable for them that for example different applications have a
    different page breaks.
    
    And yes; from the viewpoint of a user there is really no difference between a difference page break and a different
    numbering.
    
    So again --- your question is very important and thanks for raising it.
    
    I'll guess we'll end up in a discussion about layout and visual interoperability.
    
    E.g. Michael Brauer proposed a new value for the alignment of OLE objects. We agreed to not add this value, because
    adding this value will end up in different layout. So here we were concerned about layout for example.
    
    On the other hand having 100% layout fidelity will 'cause us to specify the layout to some extend. You once raise a
    question to the TC to include some kind of support for "glyph fallbacks" (if I recall correctly --- what happened to
    this btw?) which also targets better visual fidelity --- I guess.
    
    But we might get lost on the discussion that different fonts lead to different line breaks, etc...
    
    I know that this is a tough topic. Thanks you so much for raising it. I really want an answer to that from the TC too!
    
    Since you and Oliver like YES/NO answers, I'll give you a NO answer to your question. However I really believe that
    users expect a YES answer. E.g. I guess the Accessibility SC will give you a YES for this ;-)
    
    ~Florian
    
    
    >>> Thomas Zander 


  • 2.  Re: [office] lists, can we wrap it up?

    Posted 03-23-2007 12:57
    On Friday 23 March 2007, Florian Reuter wrote:
    > And yes; from the viewpoint of a user there is really no difference between a difference page break and a different
    > numbering.
    
    I disagree, and I beg not to mix topics ;)
    All apps that conform to the spec should show the same numbers, this is vital,
    much more than page breaks. We have no control over fonts and all the little things
    that might affect layouting, so let's leave this topic aside for now, but this is no
    reason not to standardize on paragraph numbering. Two implementations of ODF
    should always show the same numbers for the same document, otherwise ODF failed
    at a very basic level (sorry for the dooms-day words, but IMHO interoperability at -that-
    level is vital).
    
    > Are [two implementations] in violation of the spec if they show different numbers for the list-items ?
    YES.
    
    Numbers are almost part of the text content (e.g. they even belong in a plain text export),
    they have to be the same everywhere (unlike e.g. word breaking and general layouting).
    
    -- 
    David Faure, faure@kde.org, sponsored by Trolltech to work on KDE,
    Konqueror (http://www.konqueror.org), and KOffice (http://www.koffice.org).