OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

Hi Doug,

with some interest, I have read your blog regarding conformance clauses.

http://blogs.msdn.com/dmahugh/archive/2009/02/19/building-consensus-around-odf-1-2.aspx

I would like to comment on a few things. I'm doing this here rather than
as a reply to your blog, because I honestly believe that discussions
between TC members regarding the conformance clauses or other topics
that are related to the text of the ODF specification belong into the
TC, but not into blogs. This also applies to questions regarding TC
meeting agendas, meeting minutes or processes.

So, first of all, then reading your blog, I got the impression that the
current conformance clauses would contain only one level. You are
probably aware of this, but I anyway would like to point out that the
current proposal contains two levels. One allows the so called foreign
elements, the other does not.

You further state that the conformance "clause was inserted into a
committee draft at the last minute". It was not. When
uploading draft 8j on the 11th, Patrick clearly stated that the
conformance clauses have been integrated. We have TC calls every Monday.
Something that happens on a Wednesday before a meeting, and before the
agenda of a meeting itself has been send out, in my opinion does not
happen "in the last minute", but happens in full alignment with our
usual notification periods.

Regarding reaching consensus: In order to reach consensus on the
conformance clauses, it is essential to understand what the concerns of
those are who disagree, and also to get proposals what needs to be
changed in order to make the conformance clauses acceptable. I have
asked several times for specific feedback to the individual clauses, but
did not get much feedback. The feedback that I got has been to the
best of my knowledge integrated into the proposal. In so far, it is not
clear, at least to me, where your concerns are.

I further have asked for feedback from those who did not agree to the
committee draft last Monday in the TC call, but unfortunately did
not get any feedback so far.

You announced that you will explain your position in more detail, and
I'm looking forward to read this on the TC's mailing list. I further
would be glad to receive specific suggestions how the current 
conformance clauses have to be modified to get your acceptance. Knowing 
which specific modification you would like to see for the text of the 
conformance clauses would be very helpful and I think essential to 
figure out whether the TC can reach a consensus regarding the 
conformance clauses, or not.

Best regards

Michael

OpenDocument TC co-chair

-- 
Michael Brauer, Technical Architect Software Engineering
StarOffice/OpenOffice.org
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2009/2/23 Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg

Dave,

Now, now. Let's not be hasty.

I think there is more than enough grounds for mis-understanding and 
working through the discussion to need to have that discussion clouded 
by suspicions of ill-will, etc.

I have been working with members of this committee for a very long time 
and even so am still surprised that when we finally understand each 
other, it turns out that we were talking about completely different things.

That happens in any internationally based community that is trying to 
write a standard. As you are well aware.

Let's try to work through the issues without clever repartee or carrying 
tales to other communities. If anyone feels really vigorous, please help 
with proofing the current drafts that I have been posting. That would be 
a useful channel for your energy.

And no, just for the record I don't have a really fixed opinion about 
the conformance clause other than it needs to be clear, it needs to 
enable ODF conformance for the largest possible community (I am 
interested in its spread after all) and it needs to meet various needs 
of the communities that are interested in it. What nooks and nuances 
that it needs to have to do all that will be matters of *civil* debate 
and compromise. As all standards are.

I hope *everyone* is at the start of a great week!

Patrick

Dave Pawson wrote:
> 2009/2/23 Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg
> 

2009/2/23 Patrick Durusau 

Dave,

Dave Pawson wrote:
> 2009/2/23 Patrick Durusau