OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

  • 1.  Delayed conref domain

    Posted 08-29-2017 20:43
    Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)


  • 2.  Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain

    Posted 09-05-2017 13:54
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    I asked some of our authors in IBM about usage (in a very un-scientific way, polling in a chat channel), and the folks who usually respond to such queries hadn't heard of the domain. It was really designed around an Eclipse feature, and I am not aware of any other rendering platform that has such a feature, which probably limits the utility. I know it's also been a bit of a pain to support in the DITA-OT processing pipeline because it requires "If Eclipse" exceptions to otherwise common feature processing. Regards, Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification , Digital Services Group E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com Digital Services Group 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Kristen James Eberlein ---08/29/2017 03:42:58 PM---Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outs From: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 08/29/2017 03:42 PM Subject: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.oasis-2Dopen.org_apps_org_workgroup_portal_my-5Fworkgroups.php&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=eBihWDTS2oOizc2d2LrsewiOpn69Mu6rPwmmRMM_aAU&m=7VG2UhcxpRBcWRmDUOWWUrFWBmzvQH-TcIW1lAae87s&s=_V5eE0l_oThiIWFQvnbl-r3Ch4Q-oqkkdEZq75MpKbE&e=  


  • 3.  Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain

    Posted 09-05-2017 14:35
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    This raises the question of what we should or should not consider for inclusion in the standard. Is an architectural feature that can be used only one platform (Eclipse) too narrow? I would probably think that it is, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts. How broadly applicable should something be before we entertain adding it to the DITA standard? Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 9/5/2017 9:53 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: I asked some of our authors in IBM about usage (in a very un-scientific way, polling in a chat channel), and the folks who usually respond to such queries hadn't heard of the domain. It was really designed around an Eclipse feature, and I am not aware of any other rendering platform that has such a feature, which probably limits the utility. I know it's also been a bit of a pain to support in the DITA-OT processing pipeline because it requires If Eclipse exceptions to otherwise common feature processing. Regards, Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification , Digital Services Group E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com Digital Services Group 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Kristen James Eberlein ---08/29/2017 03:42:58 PM---Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outs From: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 08/29/2017 03:42 PM Subject: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.oasis-2Dopen.org_apps_org_workgroup_portal_my-5Fworkgroups.php&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=eBihWDTS2oOizc2d2LrsewiOpn69Mu6rPwmmRMM_aAU&m=7VG2UhcxpRBcWRmDUOWWUrFWBmzvQH-TcIW1lAae87s&s=_V5eE0l_oThiIWFQvnbl-r3Ch4Q-oqkkdEZq75MpKbE&e=  


  • 4.  Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain

    Posted 09-05-2017 14:46
    Hi Kris, Just to share the thought process behind the original requirement - at the time, there was a strong interest generally in runtime dynamic DITA delivery. So the feature was deployed in anticipation of a requirement from anyone deploying DITA in a dynamic information server (of which there are several in the market today). There was also a way to map that requirement to an existing Eclipse capability that was a potential blocker to people migrating off of HTML sources onto DITA. The reality is that the capability never got used, I think on either DITA dynamic rendering platforms or on Eclipse, but it wasn't formulated to be Eclipse-specific. Michael Priestley, Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM) Enterprise Content Technology Strategist mpriestl@ca.ibm.com From:         Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To:         dita@lists.oasis-open.org Date:         09/05/2017 10:34 AM Subject:         Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by:         <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> This raises the question of what we should or should not consider for inclusion in the standard. Is an architectural feature that can be used only one platform (Eclipse) too narrow? I would probably think that it is, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts. How broadly applicable should something be before we entertain adding it to the DITA standard? Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 9/5/2017 9:53 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: I asked some of our authors in IBM about usage (in a very un-scientific way, polling in a chat channel), and the folks who usually respond to such queries hadn't heard of the domain. It was really designed around an Eclipse feature, and I am not aware of any other rendering platform that has such a feature, which probably limits the utility. I know it's also been a bit of a pain to support in the DITA-OT processing pipeline because it requires "If Eclipse" exceptions to otherwise common feature processing. Regards, Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification , Digital Services Group E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com Digital Services Group 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Kristen James Eberlein ---08/29/2017 03:42:58 PM---Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outs From: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 08/29/2017 03:42 PM Subject: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.oasis-2Dopen.org_apps_org_workgroup_portal_my-5Fworkgroups.php&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=eBihWDTS2oOizc2d2LrsewiOpn69Mu6rPwmmRMM_aAU&m=7VG2UhcxpRBcWRmDUOWWUrFWBmzvQH-TcIW1lAae87s&s=_V5eE0l_oThiIWFQvnbl-r3Ch4Q-oqkkdEZq75MpKbE&e=  


  • 5.  Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain

    Posted 09-05-2017 14:54
      |   view attached
    I think any feature has to be sufficiently general that we can easily imagine how it could be implemented in different ways or by plausible, even if not-yet-existent, processors.   There are several features in DITA 1.x that were driven by Eclipse requirements that ended up either being only used for Eclipse or for which the design was not very good, especially after development of keys and key scopes.   If delayed conref were to be proposed today I would immediately question its usefulness and point to its complexity in the face of alternative ways to satisfy the same requirements.   Cheers,   Eliot -- Eliot Kimber http://contrext.com       From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 9:34 AM To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain   This raises the question of what we should or should not consider for inclusion in the standard. Is an architectural feature that can be used only one platform (Eclipse) too narrow? I would probably think that it is, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts. How broadly applicable should something be before we entertain adding it to the DITA standard? Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 9/5/2017 9:53 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: I asked some of our authors in IBM about usage (in a very un-scientific way, polling in a chat channel), and the folks who usually respond to such queries hadn't heard of the domain. It was really designed around an Eclipse feature, and I am not aware of any other rendering platform that has such a feature, which probably limits the utility. I know it's also been a bit of a pain to support in the DITA-OT processing pipeline because it requires "If Eclipse" exceptions to otherwise common feature processing. Regards, Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification , Digital Services Group E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com Digital Services Group 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Kristen James Eberlein ---08/29/2017 03:42:58 PM---Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outs From: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 08/29/2017 03:42 PM Subject: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.oasis-2Dopen.org_apps_org_workgroup_portal_my-5Fworkgroups.php&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=eBihWDTS2oOizc2d2LrsewiOpn69Mu6rPwmmRMM_aAU&m=7VG2UhcxpRBcWRmDUOWWUrFWBmzvQH-TcIW1lAae87s&s=_V5eE0l_oThiIWFQvnbl-r3Ch4Q-oqkkdEZq75MpKbE&e=  


  • 6.  Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain

    Posted 01-21-2018 21:31
    Resurrecting an old thread... I've been preparing the Stage 2 proposal to remove the delayed conref resolution domain from DITA 2.0. (DITA 1.3 spec info: http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/dita/v1.3/os/part3-all-inclusive/langRef/containers/delayconref-d.html ). As I drill down into this feature, I can't help but think This is a cool feature. There must be use cases for this. I would love to use it myself. I _believe_ this feature is distinctive because it supports post-build resolution of content references. Putting implementation support aside (which, I acknowledge, is an issue), how else would one satisfy this requirement, if it exists, with DITA? -Alan On 9/5/17 10:54 AM, Eliot Kimber wrote: I think any feature has to be sufficiently general that we can easily imagine how it could be implemented in different ways or by plausible, even if not-yet-existent, processors.   There are several features in DITA 1.x that were driven by Eclipse requirements that ended up either being only used for Eclipse or for which the design was not very good, especially after development of keys and key scopes.   If delayed conref were to be proposed today I would immediately question its usefulness and point to its complexity in the face of alternative ways to satisfy the same requirements.   Cheers,   Eliot -- Eliot Kimber http://contrext.com       From: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> Date: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 9:34 AM To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject: Re: [dita] Delayed conref domain   This raises the question of what we should or should not consider for inclusion in the standard. Is an architectural feature that can be used only one platform (Eclipse) too narrow? I would probably think that it is, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts. How broadly applicable should something be before we entertain adding it to the DITA standard? Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) On 9/5/2017 9:53 AM, Robert D Anderson wrote: I asked some of our authors in IBM about usage (in a very un-scientific way, polling in a chat channel), and the folks who usually respond to such queries hadn't heard of the domain. It was really designed around an Eclipse feature, and I am not aware of any other rendering platform that has such a feature, which probably limits the utility. I know it's also been a bit of a pain to support in the DITA-OT processing pipeline because it requires If Eclipse exceptions to otherwise common feature processing. Regards, Robert D. Anderson DITA-OT lead and Co-editor DITA 1.3 specification , Digital Services Group E-mail: robander@us.ibm.com Digital Services Group 11501 BURNET RD,, TX, 78758-3400, AUSTIN, USA Kristen James Eberlein ---08/29/2017 03:42:58 PM---Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outs From: Kristen James Eberlein <kris@eberleinconsulting.com> To: DITA TC <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Date: 08/29/2017 03:42 PM Subject: [dita] Delayed conref domain Sent by: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Is this a domain that we want to consider removing for DITA 2.0? I don't know if it used at all outside of IBM. -- Best, Kris Kristen James Eberlein Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting www.eberleinconsulting.com +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype) -- Alan Houser Group Wellesley, Inc. Consultant and Trainer, Technical Publishing arh on Twitter 412-450-0532