OASIS XML Localisation Interchange File Format (XLIFF) TC

Hi all,



Following up on my action item from the meeting today, here
is an initial draft of a proposal for how the <note> element can be
associated with specific content inside the source or target of a
<trans-unit>.



Sample Scenario: A reviewer wants to comment on the translation
of a specific phrase in a multi-segment trans-unit. 



Problem in XLFF 1.2: <note> elements can only
be associated with the entire source or target of a trans-unit. This makes it
difficult to associate the comment with the specific translation it applies to.
(This can be particularly confusing in translation environments that present content
to be translated in a segment-by-segment way.)



Proposed solution in XLIFF 2.0: Enhance the
annotation mechanism in XLIFF 2.0 to allow a <note> to be associated with
specifically marked content in the source and/or target.

Once way this could be accomplished is as follows:



·        
Add a new value "mrk" for the annotates
attribute of the <note> element.

·        
Add a new attribute id on the <note>
element, to be used when annotates="mrk".
This attribute should be an ID type.

·        
Add a new value "note"
for the type attribute on the <mrk> element.

·        
When type="note"
on the <mrk> element, interpret
the value of the mid attribute
as an ID reference to the id value
of an existing <note>
element.



Here is an example (pretty-printed for ease of reading):



<trans-unit>

  <source>First sentence. Interesting sentence. Last
sentence.</source>

  <seg-source>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">First
sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Interesting
sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Last
sentence.</mrk>

  </seg-source>

  <target>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">Första
meningen.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En <mrk mtype="note" mid="note1">underlig</mrk> mening.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Sista
meningen.</mrk>

  </target>

  <note annotates="mrk"
id="note1" from="reviewer">Inappropriate in this context.</note>

</trans-unit>



Some specific advantages with this approach:

·        
It is a minor, fully backwards compatible, non-breaking
change to the XLIFF 1.2 standard.

·        
A single note can reference multiple markers.
This allows associating a single remark with multiple instances or concepts. It
also allows corresponding source and target content to be associated with the
note, which could be particularly useful when commenting on terminology choices.
(An <mrk mtype=”note”> with the same mid value can be  applied
to the <seg-source> content as well as to <target> content.)

·        
The scope of the note can extend across multiple
trans-units.



I’d be very interested to hear your comments on this.



Best regards,

Magnus





SDL PLC confidential, all rights reserved.
If you are not the intended recipient of this mail SDL requests and requires that you delete it without acting upon or copying any of its contents, and we further request that you advise us.
SDL PLC is a public limited company registered in England and Wales.  Registered number: 02675207.  
Registered address: Globe House, Clivemont Road, Maidenhead, Berkshire SL6 7DY, UK.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:05:04 -0700
"Magnus Martikainen" 

Hi 
Magnus,
 
Very 
nice. I like this architecture.  
 
One 
small matter though; I wonder if we might need a new attribute to use instead of 
mid.  The way you're using the mid attribute in <mrk> in conjunction 
with the id attribute in <note> is more of an id/idref pair.  In 
order to support your vision that a single note can reference multiple markers 
(taking into account your comment at the meeting that this could include markers 
from other trans-units, which appeals to me) we'd need to modify mid's keyref on 
target/mrk elements.  In its current state, a target/mrk/@mid must have a corresponding seg-source/mrk/@mid (unique 
key).
 
If I 
wanted to refer to the same note to indicate another contextually 
inappropriate translation, in another trans-unit, by referring to note's id in a 
separate <mrk> mid, like this
 
<!-- another trans-unit elsewhere in the same XLIFF file as your 
example -->
<trans-unit>
  <source>. . . Super interesting 
sentence. . . </source>
  <seg-source>
    
<mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. . .</mrk>
    <mrk 
mtype="seg" mid="2">Super interesting 
sentence.</mrk>
    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . . 
</mrk>
  </seg-source>
  
<target>
    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. . . 
</mrk>
    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En <mrk 
mtype="note" mid="note1"> Mycket underlig</mrk> 
mening.</mrk>
    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . . 
</mrk>
  
</target>
</trans-unit>
 
. . . 
the parser would not find the "note1" key. 
 
Doug 
might be able to adapt target/mrk/@mid to 
work in either case.  But perhaps rather than changing mid to accommodate 
the new purpose, I wonder if it would be better to add a new idref 
attribute, like midref.  Just my first impression. Otherwise I really like 
this approach.
 
Thanks,
 
Bryan
 
 
 

  

  


                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
From: Magnus 
  Martikainen [mailto:MMartikainen@sdl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 
  2008 11:05 AM
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: 
  [xliff] XLIFF 2.0 proposal: Allow <note> to reference 
  <mrk>


  

  
Hi all,
  

  
Following up on my action item from the meeting today, here 
  is an initial draft of a proposal for how the <note> element can be 
  associated with specific content inside the source or target of a 
  <trans-unit>.
  

  
Sample Scenario: A reviewer wants to comment on the 
  translation of a specific phrase in a multi-segment trans-unit. 

  

  
Problem in XLFF 1.2: <note> elements can only 
  be associated with the entire source or target of a trans-unit. This makes it 
  difficult to associate the comment with the specific translation it applies 
  to. (This can be particularly confusing in translation environments that 
  present content to be translated in a segment-by-segment way.)
  

  
Proposed solution in XLIFF 2.0: Enhance the 
  annotation mechanism in XLIFF 2.0 to allow a <note> to be associated 
  with specifically marked content in the source and/or target.
  
Once way this could be accomplished is as 
  follows:
  

  
·         
  Add a new value "mrk" for the annotates attribute of the <note> element.
  
·         
  Add a new attribute id on the <note> element, to be used 
  when annotates="mrk". This 
  attribute should be an ID type.
  
·         
  Add a new value "note" for the type attribute on the <mrk> element.
  
·         
  When type="note" on the <mrk> element, interpret the 
  value of the mid attribute as 
  an ID reference to the id 
  value of an existing <note> element.
  

  
Here is an example (pretty-printed for ease of 
  reading):
  

  
<trans-unit>
  
  
  <source>First sentence. 
  Interesting sentence. Last sentence.</source>
  
  
  <seg-source>
  
    
  <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">First 
  sentence.</mrk>
  
    
  <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Interesting 
  sentence.</mrk>
  
    
  <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Last 
  sentence.</mrk>
  
  
  </seg-source>
  
  
  <target>
  
    
  <mrk 
  mtype="seg" mid="1">Första 
  meningen.</mrk>
  
    
  <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En <mrk mtype="note" mid="note1">underlig</mrk> 
  mening.</mrk>
  
    
  <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Sista 
  meningen.</mrk>
  
  
  </target>
  
  
  <note annotates="mrk" id="note1" from="reviewer">Inappropriate in this context.</note>
  
</trans-unit>
  

  
Some specific advantages with this approach:
  
·         
  It is a minor, fully backwards compatible, 
  non-breaking change to the XLIFF 1.2 standard.
  
·         
  A single note can reference multiple markers. 
  This allows associating a single remark with multiple instances or concepts. 
  It also allows corresponding source and target content to be associated with 
  the note, which could be particularly useful when commenting on terminology 
  choices. (An <mrk mtype=”note”> with the same mid value can be 
   applied to the <seg-source> content as well as to <target> 
  content.)
  
·         
  The scope of the note can extend across 
  multiple trans-units.
  

  
I’d be very interested to hear your comments on 
  this.
  

  
Best regards,
  
Magnus

SDL PLC confidential, all rights reserved.
If you are not the intended recipient of this mail SDL requests and requires that you delete it without acting upon or copying any of its contents, and we further request that you advise us.
SDL PLC is a public limited company registered in England and Wales.  Registered number: 02675207.  
Registered address: Globe House, Clivemont Road, Maidenhead, Berkshire SL6 7DY, UK.

Hi Brian,



Good point, it may not be
appropriate to overload the mid attribute if it is that strongly coupled to the
segments.



In that case I agree that introducing
a generic idref attribute on the <mrk> element may be better. If we keep
it generic and don’t tie it to a specific element /attribute it would
also open up other interesting possibilities for usage. 



One such interesting option
would be the ability to express various types of translation status information
for segments. This could help us address the fact that many properties that
would be useful on segment level are at the moment only available at the
trans-unit level.



Regards,

Magnus







From:
bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com [mailto:bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:46 PM

To: Magnus Martikainen; xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: RE: XLIFF 2.0 proposal: Allow <note> to reference
<mrk>









Hi Magnus,





 





Very nice. I like this architecture.  





 





One small matter though; I wonder if we might need a new attribute
to use instead of mid.  The way you're using the mid attribute in
<mrk> in conjunction with the id attribute in <note> is more of an
id/idref pair.  In order to support your vision that a single note can
reference multiple markers (taking into account your comment at the meeting
that this could include markers from other trans-units, which appeals to me)
we'd need to modify mid's keyref on target/mrk elements.  In its current
state, a target/mrk/@mid must have a
corresponding seg-source/mrk/@mid
(unique key).





 





If I wanted to refer to the same note to indicate another
contextually inappropriate translation, in another trans-unit, by referring to
note's id in a separate <mrk> mid, like this





 





<!-- another trans-unit elsewhere in the same XLIFF file as your
example -->





<trans-unit>

  <source>. . . Super interesting sentence. . . </source>

  <seg-source>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. .
.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Super
interesting sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . .
</mrk>

  </seg-source>

  <target>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. . .
</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En
<mrk mtype="note" mid="note1"> Mycket
underlig</mrk> mening.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . .
</mrk>

  </target>

</trans-unit>





 





. . . the parser would not find the "note1" key. 





 





Doug might be able to adapt target/mrk/@mid
to work in either case.  But perhaps rather than changing mid to
accommodate the new purpose, I wonder if it would be better to add a
new idref attribute, like midref.  Just my first impression.
Otherwise I really like this approach.





 





Thanks,





 





Bryan





 





 





 







                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----

From: Magnus Martikainen [mailto:MMartikainen@sdl.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:05 AM

To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: [xliff] XLIFF 2.0 proposal: Allow <note> to reference
<mrk>


Hi all,



Following up on my action item from the meeting today, here
is an initial draft of a proposal for how the <note> element can be
associated with specific content inside the source or target of a
<trans-unit>.



Sample Scenario: A reviewer wants to comment on the
translation of a specific phrase in a multi-segment trans-unit. 



Problem in XLFF 1.2: <note> elements can only
be associated with the entire source or target of a trans-unit. This makes it
difficult to associate the comment with the specific translation it applies to.
(This can be particularly confusing in translation environments that present
content to be translated in a segment-by-segment way.)



Proposed solution in XLIFF 2.0: Enhance the
annotation mechanism in XLIFF 2.0 to allow a <note> to be associated with
specifically marked content in the source and/or target.

Once way this could be accomplished is as follows:



·        
Add a new value "mrk"
for the annotates attribute of
the <note> element.

·        
Add a new attribute id on
the <note> element, to be
used when annotates="mrk".
This attribute should be an ID type.

·        
Add a new value "note"
for the type attribute on the <mrk> element.

·        
When type="note"
on the <mrk> element,
interpret the value of the mid
attribute as an ID reference to the id
value of an existing <note>
element.



Here is an example (pretty-printed for ease of reading):



<trans-unit>

  <source>First
sentence. Interesting sentence. Last sentence.</source>

  <seg-source>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">First sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Interesting sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Last sentence.</mrk>

  </seg-source>

  <target>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">Första
meningen.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En <mrk mtype="note" mid="note1">underlig</mrk> mening.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Sista meningen.</mrk>

  </target>

  <note annotates="mrk" id="note1" from="reviewer">Inappropriate
in this context.</note>

</trans-unit>



Some specific advantages with this approach:

·        
It is a minor, fully backwards compatible, non-breaking change to the
XLIFF 1.2 standard.

·        
A single note can reference multiple markers. This allows associating a
single remark with multiple instances or concepts. It also allows corresponding
source and target content to be associated with the note, which could be
particularly useful when commenting on terminology choices. (An <mrk
mtype=”note”> with the same mid value can be  applied to
the <seg-source> content as well as to <target> content.)

·        
The scope of the note can extend across multiple trans-units.



I’d be very interested to hear your comments on this.



Best regards,

Magnus

SDL PLC confidential, all rights reserved.
If you are not the intended recipient of this mail SDL requests and requires that you delete it without acting upon or copying any of its contents, and we further request that you advise us.
SDL PLC is a public limited company registered in England and Wales.  Registered number: 02675207.  
Registered address: Globe House, Clivemont Road, Maidenhead, Berkshire SL6 7DY, UK.

Bryan,



You are correct. It is best not to mix the
semantics of "this is my identity" (key) with "refer to that
identified element" (keyref). If mid="note1" is identifying
<mrk mtype="note"> then it is fine. If it is referring to some
other <note> element, then it should be another attribute, like noteref.



(Sorry for the delay in responding. It's
been a while since I've had some spare cycles).



-Doug











From:
bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com [mailto:bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:46
PM

To: MMartikainen@sdl.com;
xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: [xliff] RE: XLIFF 2.0
proposal: Allow <note> to reference <mrk>







Hi Magnus,





 





Very nice. I like this
architecture.  





 





One small matter though;
I wonder if we might need a new attribute to use instead of mid.  The way
you're using the mid attribute in <mrk> in conjunction with the id
attribute in <note> is more of an id/idref pair.  In order to
support your vision that a single note can reference multiple markers (taking
into account your comment at the meeting that this could include markers from
other trans-units, which appeals to me) we'd need to modify mid's keyref on
target/mrk elements.  In its current state, a target/mrk/@mid must have a corresponding seg-source/mrk/@mid (unique key).





 





If I wanted to refer
to the same note to indicate another contextually inappropriate
translation, in another trans-unit, by referring to note's id in a separate <mrk>
mid, like this





 





<!-- another
trans-unit elsewhere in the same XLIFF file as your example -->





<trans-unit>

  <source>. . . Super interesting sentence. . . </source>

  <seg-source>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. .
.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Super
interesting sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . .
</mrk>

  </seg-source>

  <target>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">. . .
</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En
<mrk mtype="note" mid="note1"> Mycket
underlig</mrk> mening.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">. . .
</mrk>

  </target>

</trans-unit>





 





. . . the parser would
not find the "note1" key. 





 





Doug might be able to
adapt target/mrk/@mid to work in either
case.  But perhaps rather than changing mid to accommodate the new
purpose, I wonder if it would be better to add a new idref attribute,
like midref.  Just my first impression. Otherwise I really like this
approach.





 





Thanks,





 





Bryan





 





 





 







                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				

                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----

From: Magnus Martikainen
[mailto:MMartikainen@sdl.com]

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:05
AM

To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: [xliff] XLIFF 2.0
proposal: Allow <note> to reference <mrk>


Hi all,



Following up on my action item from the meeting today,
here is an initial draft of a proposal for how the <note> element can be
associated with specific content inside the source or target of a
<trans-unit>.



Sample Scenario: A
reviewer wants to comment on the translation of a specific phrase in a
multi-segment trans-unit. 



Problem in XLFF 1.2:
<note> elements can only be associated with the entire source or target
of a trans-unit. This makes it difficult to associate the comment with the
specific translation it applies to. (This can be particularly confusing in
translation environments that present content to be translated in a
segment-by-segment way.)



Proposed solution in XLIFF 2.0:
Enhance the annotation mechanism in XLIFF 2.0 to allow a <note> to be
associated with specifically marked content in the source and/or target.

Once way this could be accomplished is as follows:



·        
Add a new value "mrk" for the annotates
attribute of the <note>
element.

·        
Add a new attribute id on the <note>
element, to be used when annotates="mrk". This attribute should
be an ID type.

·        
Add a new value "note" for the type attribute on the <mrk>
element.

·        
When type="note"
on the <mrk>
element, interpret the value of the mid attribute as an ID
reference to the id
value of an existing <note>
element.



Here is an example (pretty-printed for ease of
reading):



<trans-unit>

  <source>First
sentence. Interesting sentence. Last sentence.</source>

  <seg-source>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">First sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">Interesting sentence.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Last sentence.</mrk>

  </seg-source>

  <target>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="1">Första meningen.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="2">En <mrk mtype="note" mid="note1">underlig</mrk> mening.</mrk>

    <mrk mtype="seg" mid="3">Sista meningen.</mrk>

  </target>

  <note annotates="mrk" id="note1" from="reviewer">Inappropriate in this context.</note>

</trans-unit>



Some specific advantages with this approach:

·        
It is a minor, fully backwards compatible, non-breaking change to
the XLIFF 1.2 standard.

·        
A single note can reference multiple markers. This allows
associating a single remark with multiple instances or concepts. It also allows
corresponding source and target content to be associated with the note, which
could be particularly useful when commenting on terminology choices. (An
<mrk mtype=”note”> with the same mid value can be
 applied to the <seg-source> content as well as to <target>
content.)

·        
The scope of the note can extend across multiple trans-units.



I’d be very interested to hear your comments on
this.



Best regards,

Magnus

SDL PLC confidential, all rights reserved.
If you are not the intended recipient of this mail SDL requests and requires that you delete it without acting upon or copying any of its contents, and we further request that you advise us.
SDL PLC is a public limited company registered in England and Wales.  Registered number: 02675207.  
Registered address: Globe House, Clivemont Road, Maidenhead, Berkshire SL6 7DY, UK.