OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

  • 1.  Giving 120%

    Posted 06-23-2009 20:20 
    "Specifies the proportion of blue RGB color components for a pixel
graphic object. The defined value range for the draw:blue attribute is
-100% (no blue) to 100% (full blue)."

While I can understand that we don't want to discuss every single item,
shouldn't there be somewhere a common-sense filter?

If -100% is no blue and 100% is (full blue), what is a value of 0%?

Since we are using the percentage symbol here it would be nice if there
were at least some interpretation that this is a percentage of
proportion of something.

Andreas

-- 
Andreas J. Guelzow
Concordia University College of Alberta


  • 2.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 09:39 
    Andreas,

Andreas J Guelzow wrote:
> "Specifies the proportion of blue RGB color components for a pixel
> graphic object. The defined value range for the draw:blue attribute is
> -100% (no blue) to 100% (full blue)."
>
> While I can understand that we don't want to discuss every single item,
> shouldn't there be somewhere a common-sense filter?
>
> If -100% is no blue and 100% is (full blue), what is a value of 0%?
>
> Since we are using the percentage symbol here it would be nice if there
> were at least some interpretation that this is a percentage of
> proportion of something.
>
>   
The inexact language was the result of my teasing out what was implied 
in our prior versions.

draw:red, draw:green, draw:blue all control RGB channels. The color of 
any image is set elsewhere and these three attributes represent 
*changes* in the RGB channels for the rendering of that image.

Thus, a setting of -100% for draw:red, allows no input from the red 
channel. A setting of 0%, does not modify the value of the red channel 
for this image. A setting of 100% sets the red channel to maximum.

What confused me was the use of "...*sets* the output of a blue color 
space of a bitmap or raster graphic." Which to me meant that the color 
was determined by this and other attribute. Not so, the color of a 
graphic is *modified* by these attributes.

That is to say that a bitmap or raster graphic starts with a 
defined/set, whatever, RGB space and these three attributes modify that 
space.

Making what seems "obvious" to an author is very hard work and I for one 
deeply appreciate the members of the Sun team and others working towards 
that goal.

Hope you are having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)


  • 3.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 15:35 
    On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 05:41 -0400, Patrick Durusau wrote:
> Andreas,
> 
> Andreas J Guelzow wrote:
> > "Specifies the proportion of blue RGB color components for a pixel
> > graphic object. The defined value range for the draw:blue attribute is
> > -100% (no blue) to 100% (full blue)."
> >
> > While I can understand that we don't want to discuss every single item,
> > shouldn't there be somewhere a common-sense filter?
> >
> > If -100% is no blue and 100% is (full blue), what is a value of 0%?
> >
> > Since we are using the percentage symbol here it would be nice if there
> > were at least some interpretation that this is a percentage of
> > proportion of something.
> >
> >   
> The inexact language was the result of my teasing out what was implied 
> in our prior versions.
> 
> draw:red, draw:green, draw:blue all control RGB channels. The color of 
> any image is set elsewhere and these three attributes represent 
> *changes* in the RGB channels for the rendering of that image.

Perhaps it should say just that in 1.2. Currently and with the proposed
change it does not say anything about the colour being determined
elsewhere. There are only 7 times draw:red is mentioned, 5 times in its
very brief description, once in the index and once that it is to be used
with style:graphic-properties.

With the respect to the latter we have 
The


  • 4.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 15:56 
    On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 05:41 -0400, Patrick Durusau wrote:
> draw:red, draw:green, draw:blue all control RGB channels. The color of 
> any image is set elsewhere and these three attributes represent 
> *changes* in the RGB channels for the rendering of that image.
> 
> Thus, a setting of -100% for draw:red, allows no input from the red 
> channel. A setting of 0%, does not modify the value of the red channel 
> for this image. A setting of 100% sets the red channel to maximum.

On second look, this does not make sense. Suppose we are starting of
with a channel strength of 1A for blue, we can then obviously only going
down to 00 which would be -100%. +100% should be 2B. SO we are not
allowing this to be turned up even further? 

If we are allowing -100% we really should at the other end be open (or
at least go to _much_ further.

Andreas 
> 
-- 
Andreas J. Guelzow
Concordia University College of Alberta


  • 5.  RE: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 17:33 
    The only way that I could make sense of this, assuming -100% goes to dark
and +100% goes to full-on, is that the % applies to the range between the
current setting and the extreme.  That is, for the example of a channel
strength of 26 (0x1A), -% takes chunks out of the range 0 to 26, and +% adds
chunks to the range 26 to 255 (assuming the usual RGB values), so -100% is
always 0 and +100% is always 255.

This is a very strange way to do it, but I am not a subject-matter expert on
how filter settings adjust color levels in graphics work.

All this tells me is that we still don't have the full story. 

Is there a JIRA issue on this? 

 - Dennis 


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 6.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 18:23 
    Dennis,

Just quickly but yes, see Office-1746 draw:blue, 
http://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/browse/OFFICE-1746

I haven't entered the latest explanation that I got concerning the 
modification of an existing value.

BTW, 0 - 255 is only one numeric representation of RGB colors, there are 
others. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB

Not my area either.

Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend!

Patrick

PS: This was expressed a little better when the color attributes were 
treated together but the relationship between an image and modification 
of its color space was not clearly stated, at least in my opinion.

Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> The only way that I could make sense of this, assuming -100% goes to dark
> and +100% goes to full-on, is that the % applies to the range between the
> current setting and the extreme.  That is, for the example of a channel
> strength of 26 (0x1A), -% takes chunks out of the range 0 to 26, and +% adds
> chunks to the range 26 to 255 (assuming the usual RGB values), so -100% is
> always 0 and +100% is always 255.
>
> This is a very strange way to do it, but I am not a subject-matter expert on
> how filter settings adjust color levels in graphics work.
>
> All this tells me is that we still don't have the full story. 
>
> Is there a JIRA issue on this? 
>
>  - Dennis 
>
> 
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 7.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 18:35 
    On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 14:24 -0400, Patrick Durusau wrote:

> BTW, 0 - 255 is only one numeric representation of RGB colors, there are 
> others. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB
> 

In the ODF 1.2 draft, color is defined to mean #rrggbb with rr being a
hex number from 0 to 255.

So it really doesn't matter that there are also others.

Andreas
-- 
Andreas J. Guelzow, PhD, FTICA
Coordinator, Mathematical & Computing Sciences
Concordia University College of Alberta


  • 8.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 18:37 
    So, ODF can't represent 16-bit or 32-bit integer color depths or
floating point color depths?

wt

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:34, Andreas J.
Guelzow


  • 9.  Re: [office] Giving 120%

    Posted 06-26-2009 18:28 
    Andreas,

I suspect, but don't know, that the answer to your question and the one 
by Dennis depends upon the representation of the color space of an image 
and then the application of the -100% to 100% to that value.

But in the absence of knowing that value, I don't think the percentage 
values are going to be very informative.

Hope you are looking forward to a great weekend!

Patrick

Andreas J Guelzow wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 05:41 -0400, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>   
>> draw:red, draw:green, draw:blue all control RGB channels. The color of 
>> any image is set elsewhere and these three attributes represent 
>> *changes* in the RGB channels for the rendering of that image.
>>
>> Thus, a setting of -100% for draw:red, allows no input from the red 
>> channel. A setting of 0%, does not modify the value of the red channel 
>> for this image. A setting of 100% sets the red channel to maximum.
>>     
>
> On second look, this does not make sense. Suppose we are starting of
> with a channel strength of 1A for blue, we can then obviously only going
> down to 00 which would be -100%. +100% should be 2B. SO we are not
> allowing this to be turned up even further? 
>
> If we are allowing -100% we really should at the other end be open (or
> at least go to _much_ further.
>
> Andreas 
>   

-- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps)


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