OASIS Key Management Interoperability Protocol (KMIP) TC

  • 1.  Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 16:57 
    Would it be possible for us to do some of the voting by email? We have  
reasonably short meetings and a reasonably long list of members. I  
think it would speed things up for a number of votes to go by email.  
Certainly we could do it for the binary alignment, where the only  
controversy seems to be what the alignment point should be, and that  
would leave more time for presentations and discussion on the phone  
calls.

	Jon

-- 
Jon Callas
CTO, CSO
PGP Corporation         Tel: +1 (650) 319-9016
200 Jefferson Drive     Fax: +1 (650) 319-9001
Menlo Park, CA 94025    PGP: ed15 5bdf cd41 adfc 00f3
USA                          28b6 52bf 5a46 bc98 e63d


  • 2.  RE: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 17:29 
    Hi -

Anything that helps us work most efficiently is certainly welcome!

Regarding the alignment proposal in particular, Matt will be sending
around two proposals -- an updated one for 32-bit alignment, and a
second for 64-bit alignement. I suggest we review those on the
reflector, return to them at least briefly in our meeting on 7-May to
ensure that all issues have been surfaced and addressed, and determine
at that point whether an email vote or live vote is most efficient for
that issue?

Regards,

Bob


    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 3.  RE: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 18:26 
    










    


    IMO, email voting is not likely to "speed things up". 
An email vote is considered an "electronic ballot" and is treated the
same as a ballot using the web-based Kavi ballot system.  The TC Process requires
electronic ballots to remain open for a minimum of 7 days.
    


    


    Also, unless the TC has adopted the standing rule
described below (which we have not done), the motion/second to do an email/Kavi
ballot must be done during a TC meeting with quorum present.  So, at the
next TC meeting, we could move to start an electronic email ballot, but we can’t
close it until a minimum of 7 days have passed.
    


    


    In general, non-f2f TC meetings work most effectively if as
much discussion as possible on important items is driven to the email list. The
meetings can then focus as much as possible on items that simply require some
clarification and voting. 
    


    


    For info on electronic balloting in TC’s, see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06-19.php#voting:

    


    “Electronic Voting: TCs may conduct
electronic ballots, either by using the TC’s general mail list or the
publicly archived electronic voting functionality provided by OASIS. The
minimum period allowed for electronic voting shall be seven days; the TC may
specify a longer voting period for a particular electronic ballot. Any
Specification Ballot conducted as an electronic ballot must permit each voter
to choose "yes", "no" or "abstain."
    


    “A motion to open an electronic ballot must be made in a TC meeting
unless the TC has adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on
the TC’s general email list. When such a rule has been adopted, motions
made on the mail list must also be seconded and discussed on that list.”
    


    


    


    Rob Philpott 
    


    RSA, the Security Division of EMC
    


    Senior Technologist | e-Mail: robert.philpott@rsa.com |
Office: (781) 515-7115 | Mobile: (617) 510-0893
    


    


    


    > 
    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message


  • 4.  Re: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 18:41 

    On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:24 AM, <robert.philpott@rsa.com> wrote:

    IMO, email voting is not likely to "speed things up".  An email vote is considered an "electronic ballot" and is treated the same as a ballot using the web-based Kavi ballot system.  The TC Process requires electronic ballots to remain open for a minimum of 7 days.
    Also, unless the TC has adopted the standing rule described below (which we have not done), the motion/second to do an email/Kavi ballot must be done during a TC meeting with quorum present.  So, at the next TC meeting, we could move to start an electronic email ballot, but we can’t close it until a minimum of 7 days have passed.
    In general, non-f2f TC meetings work most effectively if as much discussion as possible on important items is driven to the email list. The meetings can then focus as much as possible on items that simply require some clarification and voting.
    For info on electronic balloting in TC’s, see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06-19.php#voting:
    “Electronic Voting: TCs may conduct electronic ballots, either by using the TC’s general mail list or the publicly archived electronic voting functionality provided by OASIS. The minimum period allowed for electronic voting shall be seven days; the TC may specify a longer voting period for a particular electronic ballot. Any Specification Ballot conducted as an electronic ballot must permit each voter to choose "yes", "no" or "abstain."
    “A motion to open an electronic ballot must be made in a TC meeting unless the TC has adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on the TC’s general email list. When such a rule has been adopted, motions made on the mail list must also be seconded and discussed on that list.”
    Okay, it sounds to me like we're in mostly violent agreement.

    I agree completely with your comment that as much should be done on email lists as possible. This morning, it took us twenty-plus minutes on the call to do a roll call and achieve quorum. Yes, that can likely easily halve itself, but we're still consuming a large part of the meeting in pure overhead.

    When I said "email" I mean more of an electronic ballot of any sort. I really don't care what the mechanism is, I just want more effective use of the phone call.

    If the web-based voting has higher latency, that's too bad, but I think we can get higher throughput that way. In most ballots, it's going to be mostly obvious where things are going, anyway. For example, with Matt's binary alignment proposal, we're mostly in agreement on it with just one point open for debate. That debate's likely to sort itself out on the mailing list. We can thus use the valuable phone time for things that are best done on the phone other than running down a roll call. That's the sort of boring, repetitive task that computers are ideal for solving.

    	Jon
     

    -- 
    Jon Callas         
    CTO, CSO           
    PGP Corporation         Tel: +1 (650) 319-9016
    200 Jefferson Drive     Fax: +1 (650) 319-9001
    Menlo Park, CA 94025    PGP: ed15 5bdf cd41 adfc 00f3
    USA                          28b6 52bf 5a46 bc98 e63d



  • 5.  RE: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 19:19 
    










    


    Managing electronic ballots is a headache for the chairs.  This
is especially true for email ballots, but it applies to the web-based ones as
well to some degree.
    


    


    IMO, it’s MUCH more efficient to get the discussion done
on the list and, most importantly, see if anyone objects to the proposal on the
list before it comes to a vote.  Voting in the meetings is normally MUCH
more efficient in this manner, by far:
    


    


    -         
Make a motion to adopt a proposal
    


    -         
Second the motion
    


    -         
Chair: “any objection to accepting the motion by unanimous
consent”?
    


    -         
TC – silence
    


    -         
Chair: “Hearing none, the motion is carried.
    


    


    30 seconds max. Only in the case where someone objects do you
have to do a roll call vote.  And that can be avoided by tabling the
motion or having the proposer of the motion withdraw it from consideration at
the current meeting.  The discussion can then be taken back to the list
and the motion re-made or pulled from the table at the next meeting if the
issues get resolved.
    


    


    Having co-chaired a fairly large TC (SSTC) for 3 years, I assure
you this is quite efficient and a LOT less work for the chairs.  And given
the time commitment they already make to the TC work, that should also be a
consideration for all of us J.
    


    


    


    Rob Philpott 
    


    RSA, the Security Division of EMC
    
    Senior
Technologist | e-Mail: robert.philpott@rsa.com
| Office: (781) 515-7115 | Mobile: (617) 510-0893
    


    


    


    


    


    


    From: Jon Callas
[mailto:jon@pgp.com]
    
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:41 PM
    
To: kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
    
Subject: Re: [kmip] Voting by email?
    


    


    


    


    


    


    


    On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:24 AM, <robert.philpott@rsa.com> wrote:
    


    




    

    


    


    


    


    IMO, email voting is not likely to "speed things
up".  An email vote is considered an "electronic ballot" and
is treated the same as a ballot using the web-based Kavi ballot system. 
The TC Process requires electronic ballots to remain open for a minimum of 7
days.
    


    


    


     
    


    


    


    Also, unless the TC has adopted the standing rule described below
(which we have not done), the motion/second to do an email/Kavi ballot must be
done during a TC meeting with quorum present.  So, at the next TC meeting,
we could move to start an electronic email ballot, but we can’t close it
until a minimum of 7 days have passed.
    


    


    


     
    


    


    


    In general, non-f2f TC meetings work most effectively if as much
discussion as possible on important items is driven to the email list. The
meetings can then focus as much as possible on items that simply require some
clarification and voting.
    


    


    


     
    


    


    


    For info on electronic balloting in TC’s, see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06-19.php#voting:
    


    


    “Electronic Voting: TCs may conduct electronic ballots, either by using the
TC’s general mail list or the publicly archived electronic voting
functionality provided by OASIS. The minimum period allowed for electronic
voting shall be seven days; the TC may specify a longer voting period for a
particular electronic ballot. Any Specification Ballot conducted as an
electronic ballot must permit each voter to choose "yes",
"no" or "abstain."
    


    “A motion to open an electronic ballot must
be made in a TC meeting unless the TC has adopted a standing rule to allow this
motion to be made on the TC’s general email list. When such a rule has
been adopted, motions made on the mail list must also be seconded and discussed
on that list.”
    


    


    


    Okay, it sounds to me like we're in mostly violent agreement.
    


    


    


    


    


    


    I agree completely with your comment that as much should be
done on email lists as possible. This morning, it took us twenty-plus minutes
on the call to do a roll call and achieve quorum. Yes, that can likely easily
halve itself, but we're still consuming a large part of the meeting in pure
overhead.
    


    


    


    


    


    


    When I said "email" I mean more of an electronic
ballot of any sort. I really don't care what the mechanism is, I just want more
effective use of the phone call.
    


    


    


    


    


    


    If the web-based voting has higher latency, that's too bad,
but I think we can get higher throughput that way. In most ballots, it's going
to be mostly obvious where things are going, anyway. For example, with Matt's
binary alignment proposal, we're mostly in agreement on it with just one point
open for debate. That debate's likely to sort itself out on the mailing list.
We can thus use the valuable phone time for things that are best done on the
phone other than running down a roll call. That's the sort of boring,
repetitive task that computers are ideal for solving.
    


    


    


    


    


    


              Jon
    


    


    


    


    



    
-- 
    


    


    


    Jon Callas         
    


    


    


    CTO, CSO           
    


    


    


    PGP Corporation         Tel: +1 (650) 319-9016
    


    


    


    200 Jefferson Drive     Fax: +1 (650) 319-9001
    


    


    


    Menlo Park, CA 94025    PGP: ed15 5bdf cd41
adfc 00f3
    


    


    


    USA                 
        28b6 52bf 5a46 bc98 e63d


  • 6.  RE: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 19:19 
    




    Does OASIS support an electronic attendance tool?  A 
couple of other standards that I work on have gone to this method and it is very 
effective way to avoid wasting time taking attendance.  

    

     
    

    Cheers,
    

    Scott
    

     
    

    

    
From: Jon Callas [mailto:jon@pgp.com]
    Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:41 PM
    To: 
kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
    Subject: Re: [kmip] Voting by 
email?

    


    

    

    On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:24 AM, <robert.philpott@rsa.com> 
wrote:

    

    
  
    
  
    
  
    IMO, 
  email voting is not likely to "speed things up".  An email vote is 
  considered an "electronic ballot" and is treated the same as a ballot using 
  the web-based Kavi ballot system.  The TC Process requires electronic 
  ballots to remain open for a minimum of 7 days.
    
  
    
  
    Also, 
  unless the TC has adopted the standing rule described below (which we have not 
  done), the motion/second to do an email/Kavi ballot must be done during a TC 
  meeting with quorum present.  So, at the next TC meeting, we could move 
  to start an electronic email ballot, but we can’t close it until a minimum of 
  7 days have passed.
    
  
    
  
    In 
  general, non-f2f TC meetings work most effectively if as much discussion as 
  possible on important items is driven to the email list. The meetings can then 
  focus as much as possible on items that simply require some clarification and 
  voting.
    
  
    
  
    For 
  info on electronic balloting in TC’s, see http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process-2008-06-19.php#voting:
    
  
    “Electronic Voting: TCs may conduct electronic ballots, 
  either by using the TC’s general mail list or the publicly archived electronic 
  voting functionality provided by OASIS. The minimum period allowed for 
  electronic voting shall be seven days; the TC may specify a longer voting 
  period for a particular electronic ballot. Any Specification Ballot conducted 
  as an electronic ballot must permit each voter to choose "yes", "no" or 
  "abstain."
    
  
    “A 
  motion to open an electronic ballot must be made in a TC meeting unless the TC 
  has adopted a standing rule to allow this motion to be made on the TC’s 
  general email list. When such a rule has been adopted, motions made on the 
  mail list must also be seconded and discussed on that 
  list.”
    Okay, it sounds to me like we're in 
mostly violent agreement.
    


    

    I agree completely with your comment that as much should be done on email 
lists as possible. This morning, it took us twenty-plus minutes on the call to 
do a roll call and achieve quorum. Yes, that can likely easily halve itself, but 
we're still consuming a large part of the meeting in pure overhead.
    


    

    When I said "email" I mean more of an electronic ballot of any sort. I 
really don't care what the mechanism is, I just want more effective use of the 
phone call.
    


    

    If the web-based voting has higher latency, that's too bad, but I think we 
can get higher throughput that way. In most ballots, it's going to be mostly 
obvious where things are going, anyway. For example, with Matt's binary 
alignment proposal, we're mostly in agreement on it with just one point open for 
debate. That debate's likely to sort itself out on the mailing list. We can thus 
use the valuable phone time for things that are best done on the phone other 
than running down a roll call. That's the sort of boring, repetitive task that 
computers are ideal for solving.
    


    

    Jon
    

    

    


    -- 
    

    Jon Callas         
    

    CTO, CSO           
    

    PGP Corporation         Tel: +1 (650) 319-9016
    

    200 Jefferson Drive     Fax: +1 (650) 319-9001
    

    Menlo Park, CA 94025    PGP: ed15 5bdf cd41 adfc 
00f3
    

    USA                    
      28b6 52bf 5a46 bc98 e63d


  • 7.  RE: [kmip] Voting by email?

    Posted 04-30-2009 19:02 
    We would have to vote to have a email ballot and the email ballot has to run for 7 days. So a vote should have been taken to have a email ballot before the end of the call today, The quickest way will be to vote in person next meeting.

    
Anthony Nadalin | Work 512.838.0085 | Cell 512.289.4122

    
---04/30/2009 12:29:00 PM---Hi -

    


    


    
From:
    
<robert.griffin@rsa.com>
    



    
To:
    
<jon@pgp.com>, <kmip@lists.oasis-open.org>
    



    
Date:
    
04/30/2009 12:29 PM
    



    
Subject:
    
RE: [kmip] Voting by email?
    

    




    
Hi -

    
Anything that helps us work most efficiently is certainly welcome!

    
Regarding the alignment proposal in particular, Matt will be sending
    
around two proposals -- an updated one for 32-bit alignment, and a
    
second for 64-bit alignement. I suggest we review those on the
    
reflector, return to them at least briefly in our meeting on 7-May to
    
ensure that all issues have been surfaced and addressed, and determine
    
at that point whether an email vote or live vote is most efficient for
    
that issue?

    
Regards,

    
Bob

    

    
                                                
    
					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
    
                                                
    
                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
    
                                                    mailto:jon@pgp.com]
    
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:57 PM
    
To: kmip@lists.oasis-open.org
    
Subject: [kmip] Voting by email?

    
Would it be possible for us to do some of the voting by email? We have  
    
reasonably short meetings and a reasonably long list of members. I  
    
think it would speed things up for a number of votes to go by email.  
    
Certainly we could do it for the binary alignment, where the only  
    
controversy seems to be what the alignment point should be, and that  
    
would leave more time for presentations and discussion on the phone  
    
calls.

    
		 Jon

    
--
    
Jon Callas
    
CTO, CSO
    
PGP Corporation         Tel: +1 (650) 319-9016
    
200 Jefferson Drive     Fax: +1 (650) 319-9001
    
Menlo Park, CA 94025    PGP: ed15 5bdf cd41 adfc 00f3
    
USA                          28b6 52bf 5a46 bc98 e63d





    
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