OASIS XML Localisation Interchange File Format (XLIFF) TC

Dimitra,

Would you please add the logistical info and send it to the group (hotel, room, internet rqts for attendees, etc., as best you know)? Thanks!

Bryan

________________________________________
From: bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com [bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:08 AM
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xliff] Groups - Face to Face Limerick added

This meeing notice was added a bit hastily at a kiosk - please feel free to
suggest changes.

- Bryan


 -- Bryan Schnabel*


Face to Face Limerick has been added by Bryan Schnabel*

Date:  Tuesday, 21 September 2010
Time:  01:00pm - 02:00pm ET

Event Description:
This is the teleconference info for the face-2-face meeting:

The meeting starts at 6pm Limerick Time (17:00 UTC,  11am Boulder, 2pm Montevideo)
The GoToSession will be on 30mn before in case anyone needs to work out their connection.

The GoToMeeting session is this one:
https://www1.gotomeeting.com/join/428876664

Voice:
-       VOIP with GoToMeeting
-       By phone: Dial 630-869-1012,  Access Code: 428-876-664
-       We will have also Skype in case some get a better sound that way (as the people in the meeting room would not have headset)

Meeting ID: 428-876-664

Agenda:
As ususal, I will hope that we can have impromtu agenda items added to our face to face as appropriate (this has been a usefull format in the past for face to face meetings. And here are the items I've added:

Agenda:
1/ Roll call

2/ Approve Tuesday, 7 September 2010 meeting minutes:
   Accept, reject, or amend.


http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201009/msg00006.html

3/ Current XLIFF business
  1. Move our spec into Docbook (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201007/msg00009.html)
    a. Filter current spec into Docbook (Bryan)
    b. XLIFF as an ISO standard (Peter) (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00029.html)
  2. ISO/OASIS XLIFF

4/ XLIFF Inline text SC report (LISA/OSCAR proposal to re-establish a partnership
   in developing common text markup)
  1. Yves' SC report

5/ Charter
  The current charter is here: (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xliff/charter.php)

6/ Conformance (Here are the OASIS Guidelines: http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/TCHandbook/ConformanceGuidelines.html)
  1. Rodolfo started a thread on his first draft (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00001.html)
  2. Yves started a thread on Conformance/compliance (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00002.html)

7/ XLIFF 2.0
  1. Simplified XLIFF element tree (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00012.html)
  (we now have 4 approved new features and 11 proposed features to be evaluated)
  2. Asgeir started a thread on multiple File elements (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00012.html)
     - discuss this here, or move it to the Feature Tracking page?
  3. Review items from XLIFF 2.0 Dashboard (http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0)
    (move any items to Feature Tacking Section?)
  4. Review items approved in section 1 (http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0/FeatureTracking)
  5. Begin work evaluating proposed features

Minutes:


View event details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=28409

PLEASE NOTE:  If the above link does not work for you, your email
application may be breaking the link into two pieces.  You may be able to
copy and paste the entire link address into the address field of your web
browser.

Dear all,



The face-to-face meeting will take place at the Boardroom
at the Carlton Castletroy Park Hotel.
There is free wi-fi available in the hotel. 

We will be around before the meeting starts to make sure that
everybody finds the room.

We look forward to seeing you tomorrow.



Kind regards,

Dimitra



P.S. If you are driving, please check the previous email
with car parking information.



________________________________________

From: bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com
[bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]

Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:08 AM

To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: [xliff] Groups - Face to Face Limerick added



This meeing notice was added a bit hastily at a kiosk -
please feel free to

suggest changes.



- Bryan





 -- Bryan Schnabel*





Face to Face Limerick has been added by Bryan Schnabel*



Date:  Tuesday, 21 September 2010

Time:  01:00pm - 02:00pm ET



Event Description:

This is the teleconference info for the face-2-face
meeting:



The meeting starts at 6pm Limerick Time (17:00 UTC, 
11am Boulder, 2pm Montevideo)

The GoToSession will be on 30mn before in case anyone
needs to work out their connection.



The GoToMeeting session is this one:

https://www1.gotomeeting.com/join/428876664



Voice:

-       VOIP with
GoToMeeting

-       By phone: Dial
630-869-1012,  Access Code: 428-876-664

-       We will have also
Skype in case some get a better sound that way (as the people in the meeting
room would not have headset)



Meeting ID: 428-876-664



Agenda:

As ususal, I will hope that we can have impromtu agenda
items added to our face to face as appropriate (this has been a usefull format
in the past for face to face meetings. And here are the items I've added:



Agenda:

1/ Roll call



2/ Approve Tuesday, 7 September 2010 meeting minutes:

   Accept, reject, or amend.





http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201009/msg00006.html



3/ Current XLIFF business

  1. Move our spec into Docbook
(http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201007/msg00009.html)

    a. Filter current spec into Docbook
(Bryan)

    b. XLIFF as an ISO standard (Peter)
(http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00029.html)

  2. ISO/OASIS XLIFF



4/ XLIFF Inline text SC report (LISA/OSCAR proposal to
re-establish a partnership

   in developing common text markup)

  1. Yves' SC report



5/ Charter

  The current charter is here:
(http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xliff/charter.php)



6/ Conformance (Here are the OASIS Guidelines:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/TCHandbook/ConformanceGuidelines.html)

  1. Rodolfo started a thread on his first draft
(http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00001.html)

  2. Yves started a thread on Conformance/compliance
(http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00002.html)



7/ XLIFF 2.0

  1. Simplified XLIFF element tree
(http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00012.html)

  (we now have 4 approved new features and 11
proposed features to be evaluated)

  2. Asgeir started a thread on multiple File
elements (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00012.html)

     - discuss this here, or move it
to the Feature Tracking page?

  3. Review items from XLIFF 2.0 Dashboard
(http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0)

    (move any items to Feature Tacking
Section?)

  4. Review items approved in section 1
(http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0/FeatureTracking)

  5. Begin work evaluating proposed features



Minutes:





View event details:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=28409



PLEASE NOTE:  If the above link does not work for
you, your email

application may be breaking the link into two
pieces.  You may be able to

copy and paste the entire link address into the address
field of your web

browser.







---------------------------------------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the
OASIS TC that

generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your
TCs in OASIS at:

https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php

Now that I take a look, and thinking about Yves' strategy of trying to get as much done at a face to face as possible, it seems like if we were able to get 7.1, and maybe 7.3 & 7.4 moved forward, that might be a good goal.

- Bryan

________________________________________
From: bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com [bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:08 AM
To: xliff@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [xliff] Groups - Face to Face Limerick added

This meeing notice was added a bit hastily at a kiosk - please feel free to
suggest changes.

- Bryan


 -- Bryan Schnabel*


Face to Face Limerick has been added by Bryan Schnabel*

Date:  Tuesday, 21 September 2010
Time:  01:00pm - 02:00pm ET

Event Description:
This is the teleconference info for the face-2-face meeting:

The meeting starts at 6pm Limerick Time (17:00 UTC,  11am Boulder, 2pm Montevideo)
The GoToSession will be on 30mn before in case anyone needs to work out their connection.

The GoToMeeting session is this one:
https://www1.gotomeeting.com/join/428876664

Voice:
-       VOIP with GoToMeeting
-       By phone: Dial 630-869-1012,  Access Code: 428-876-664
-       We will have also Skype in case some get a better sound that way (as the people in the meeting room would not have headset)

Meeting ID: 428-876-664

Agenda:
As ususal, I will hope that we can have impromtu agenda items added to our face to face as appropriate (this has been a usefull format in the past for face to face meetings. And here are the items I've added:

Agenda:
1/ Roll call

2/ Approve Tuesday, 7 September 2010 meeting minutes:
   Accept, reject, or amend.


http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201009/msg00006.html

3/ Current XLIFF business
  1. Move our spec into Docbook (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201007/msg00009.html)
    a. Filter current spec into Docbook (Bryan)
    b. XLIFF as an ISO standard (Peter) (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00029.html)
  2. ISO/OASIS XLIFF

4/ XLIFF Inline text SC report (LISA/OSCAR proposal to re-establish a partnership
   in developing common text markup)
  1. Yves' SC report

5/ Charter
  The current charter is here: (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xliff/charter.php)

6/ Conformance (Here are the OASIS Guidelines: http://docs.oasis-open.org/templates/TCHandbook/ConformanceGuidelines.html)
  1. Rodolfo started a thread on his first draft (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00001.html)
  2. Yves started a thread on Conformance/compliance (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00002.html)

7/ XLIFF 2.0
  1. Simplified XLIFF element tree (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00012.html)
  (we now have 4 approved new features and 11 proposed features to be evaluated)
  2. Asgeir started a thread on multiple File elements (http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201006/msg00012.html)
     - discuss this here, or move it to the Feature Tracking page?
  3. Review items from XLIFF 2.0 Dashboard (http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0)
    (move any items to Feature Tacking Section?)
  4. Review items approved in section 1 (http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xliff/XLIFF2.0/FeatureTracking)
  5. Begin work evaluating proposed features

Minutes:


View event details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/xliff/event.php?event_id=28409

PLEASE NOTE:  If the above link does not work for you, your email
application may be breaking the link into two pieces.  You may be able to
copy and paste the entire link address into the address field of your web
browser.

Face to Face Limerick - Summary
Date:  Tuesday, 21 September 2010
Time:  01:00pm - 02:00pm ET


=== 1/ Roll call

Presents: Yves, Dimitra, Lucia, Bryan, Rodolfo, Andrzej, Doug, David, Peter, Christian, Asgeir.
Regrets: Andrew

6th face-to-face meeting
Thanks to Lucia and Dimitra for the organization.

Goal: get some work done.
Ok to go off agenda if needed.


=== 2/ Approve Tuesday, 7 September 2010 meeting minutes:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201009/msg00006.html

Yves moves to accept the minutes.
Rodolfo seconds
No dissents.



=== 3/ Current XLIFF business
1. Move our spec into Docbook
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201007/msg00009.html
a. Filter current spec into Docbook (Bryan)

Not done yet.



=== b. XLIFF as an ISO standard (Peter)
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xliff/201008/msg00029.html

Peter not there yet.



=== 4/ XLIFF Inline text SC report

Yves: Alsmots done with requirements. One more left, then on to implementation.
Rodolfo: Arle being able to provide tMX-related feedback?
Yves: Yes

Christian: 1 requirement outstanding? which one?
Yves: yes, the last one.

Dimitra: So next meeting is about implementation?
Yves: no quite: first closing the last requirement; possibly look at symposium feedback too;
then implementation, so maybe start at the next meeting, otherwise the one after.


=== Backward compatibility:

Bryan: what should be discuss now? 
David: charter maybe? Item #5.
Do we have an obligation for backward compatibility?

Rodolfo: 2.0: ok to break compatibility. Major change.
Yves: agree.
Peter: had the discussion before. Same conclusion as Rodolfo.

Bryan: anyone think 2.0 should be backward compatible?
No one does. -> 2.0 can be not backward compatible.
David: we should vote.

Proposed motion: "The TC proclaims that XLIFF 2.0 needs to give precedence to satisfying requirements over backward compatibility with 1.2, if necessary."
Yes: means we agree, No: do not agree.
Vote is conducted.
Results: Yes unanimously.



=== Conformance Discussion

Most of the remaining part of the meeting was a long discussion about conformance, compliance, validation and related topics. There was no consensus on what to do on that subject (besides continuing working on it) at the end.

There seem to be two main positions:

- one that wants the conformance to be defined for the XLIFF documents, and leave anything to do with application, process, or other aspect out of conformance.

- one that would like to integrate some way to define how applications should process the document in a way that is acceptable.

The following is a *partial* summary of the discussion.
It is probably not accurate in some parts and has many holes as the voice communications was difficult at times.


---------- start of partial and not always accurate summary ----------

Rodolfo: we started a thread on conformance, but it bogged down when talking about compliance.
Bryan: this may benefit from panel at the symposium

David: difference?
Rodolfo: they are difference: the XLIFF doc may be conformant, but the tool doesn't work correctly with it.

Processing req: Importance is to return a valid (conformant) XLIFF output if you get a conformant input.

Not sure we can assess the conformance of the process.

Example: tool a generate valid XLIFF 1.2
A tool B re-order attributes -> still valid
But tool A has problem with the output despite its validity.
Tool B was conformant.

App and doc conformance are different things.

Tools A -> xliff -> tool B add