OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

  • 1.  use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 15:17
    
    
    
    
    
    I have just checked the langref of the element <term> in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. All langref descriptions are identically with the following sentance:
     
    The <term> element identifies words that represent extended definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries.
     
    As "future development of DITA" is mentioned within 3 DITA releases we may have either to change this text or to provide a solution. Or do we already have solved this, then we may have to update the text.
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris
     

     


  • 2.  RE: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 15:29
    
    
    
    
    
    I think we should delete that sentence. 
     
    Not only isn't it relevant to the current standard, but it's talking about application behavior that should be driven by a stylesheet, not something that should be in the DITA spec.  (But you knew I was going to say that.)
     
    paul


    From: Christian Kravogel [mailto:christian.kravogel@seicodyne.ch]
    Sent: Thursday, 2009 March 12 10:17
    To: 'dita'
    Subject: [dita] use of <term>

    I have just checked the langref of the element <term> in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. All langref descriptions are identically with the following sentance:
     
    The <term> element identifies words that represent extended definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries.
     
    As "future development of DITA" is mentioned within 3 DITA releases we may have either to change this text or to provide a solution. Or do we already have solved this, then we may have to update the text.
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris


  • 3.  Re: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 15:32
    
    
      
    
    
    I recall that there was a semantic linking feature on the table for
    DITA 1.1, which may have been associated with the <term> element.
    I believe it died more to lack of inertia than anything else.

    I would concur with Paul Grosso's assessment that this would be application behavior, best left to implementers.

    -Alan
    ---
    Alan Houser, President
    Group Wellesley, Inc.
    412-363-3481
    www.groupwellesley.com
    


    Christian Kravogel wrote:
    244C2AE6FFED4089A5DEA896F3C199BE@SeicoDyne.local" type="cite">
    I have just checked the langref of the element <term> in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. All langref descriptions are identically with the following sentance:
     
    The <term> element identifies words that represent extended definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries.
     
    As "future development of DITA" is mentioned within 3 DITA releases we may have either to change this text or to provide a solution. Or do we already have solved this, then we may have to update the text.
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris
     

    SeicoDyne GmbH
    Eichenstrasse 16
    CH-6015 Reussbühl
    Switzerland
    Tel: +41 41 534 66 97
    Mob: +41 78 790 66 97
    Skype: seicodyne
    Member of the DITA Technical Committee
    Chairman of the DITA Machine Industry Subcommittee
     


  • 4.  Re: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 15:43
    On 3/12/09 9:32 AM, "Alan Houser" 


  • 5.  AW: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 15:49
    
    
    
    
    
    I pretty much like working with xquery and the idea that this problem should be left to impementers or actually be solved by the stylesheet. But I am not sure if that is reliable with all languages and character sets.
     
    Regardless if that task can be solved by implementers in all cases, we should not generate expectations to future DITA implementations in the langref over a period of 3 DITA releases.
     
    Either we should provide associative linking to matching glossary entries as it is mentioned in the langref,
    or we mention that the implementer can link the <term> with the corresponding <glossterm> via stylesheet i.e. xquery.
     
    I do not propose "deleting" but "giving unambiguous descriptions who do not create expectations we may not going to fullfill"
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris

     


    Von: Alan Houser [mailto:arh@groupwellesley.com]
    Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. März 2009 16:32
    An: Christian Kravogel
    Cc: 'dita'
    Betreff: Re: [dita] use of <term>

    I recall that there was a semantic linking feature on the table for DITA 1.1, which may have been associated with the <term> element. I believe it died more to lack of inertia than anything else.

    I would concur with Paul Grosso's assessment that this would be application behavior, best left to implementers.

    -Alan
    ---
    Alan Houser, President
    Group Wellesley, Inc.
    412-363-3481
    www.groupwellesley.com
    


    Christian Kravogel wrote:
    244C2AE6FFED4089A5DEA896F3C199BE@SeicoDyne.local" type="cite">
    I have just checked the langref of the element <term> in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. All langref descriptions are identically with the following sentance:
     
    The <term> element identifies words that represent extended definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries.
     
    As "future development of DITA" is mentioned within 3 DITA releases we may have either to change this text or to provide a solution. Or do we already have solved this, then we may have to update the text.
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris
     

    SeicoDyne GmbH
    Eichenstrasse 16
    CH-6015 Reussbühl
    Switzerland
    Tel: +41 41 534 66 97
    Mob: +41 78 790 66 97
    Skype: seicodyne
    Member of the DITA Technical Committee
    Chairman of the DITA Machine Industry Subcommittee
     


  • 6.  Re: AW: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 16:23
    On 3/12/09 9:48 AM, "Christian Kravogel" 


  • 7.  RE: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 16:45
    
    
    
    
    
    I see no harm in the spec giving indications to vendors as to what they should be developing.
     
    This is an important function that's been in my requirements doc for six years or more, with no vendor supporting it. Process as follows: Writer marks an item in a topic with <term>. Processing harvests every <term> in all the topics in a map (or other aggregation). If a given <term>-tagged item also appears in an associated glossary document (associated in the publishing environment), it is included in a glossary for the publication that is assembled and published as part of that document, and appropriately linked in online renditions. If a given <term>-tagged item does not appear in the glossary, a flag is raised for someone to create a glossary entry for it, and until then that item is not rendered as a glossary item (link, etc.) or in any special way.
     
    At present, glossaries are labor intensive, error prone, and often omitted although desired.
     
    This is an example of how use cases may not be being communicated to vendors, and the spec can help close that loop. Relevance to adoption is obvious.
     
        /B


    From: Christian Kravogel [mailto:christian.kravogel@seicodyne.ch]
    Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:49 AM
    To: 'Alan Houser'; 'dita'
    Subject: AW: [dita] use of <term>

    I pretty much like working with xquery and the idea that this problem should be left to impementers or actually be solved by the stylesheet. But I am not sure if that is reliable with all languages and character sets.
     
    Regardless if that task can be solved by implementers in all cases, we should not generate expectations to future DITA implementations in the langref over a period of 3 DITA releases.
     
    Either we should provide associative linking to matching glossary entries as it is mentioned in the langref,
    or we mention that the implementer can link the <term> with the corresponding <glossterm> via stylesheet i.e. xquery.
     
    I do not propose "deleting" but "giving unambiguous descriptions who do not create expectations we may not going to fullfill"
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris

     


    Von: Alan Houser [mailto:arh@groupwellesley.com]
    Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. März 2009 16:32
    An: Christian Kravogel
    Cc: 'dita'
    Betreff: Re: [dita] use of <term>

    I recall that there was a semantic linking feature on the table for DITA 1.1, which may have been associated with the <term> element. I believe it died more to lack of inertia than anything else.

    I would concur with Paul Grosso's assessment that this would be application behavior, best left to implementers.

    -Alan
    ---
    Alan Houser, President
    Group Wellesley, Inc.
    412-363-3481
    www.groupwellesley.com
    


    Christian Kravogel wrote:
    244C2AE6FFED4089A5DEA896F3C199BE@SeicoDyne.local" type="cite">
    I have just checked the langref of the element <term> in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. All langref descriptions are identically with the following sentance:
     
    The <term> element identifies words that represent extended definitions or explanations. In future development of DITA, for example, terms might provide associative linking to matching glossary entries.
     
    As "future development of DITA" is mentioned within 3 DITA releases we may have either to change this text or to provide a solution. Or do we already have solved this, then we may have to update the text.
     
    Best regards
     
    Chris
     

    SeicoDyne GmbH
    Eichenstrasse 16
    CH-6015 Reussbühl
    Switzerland
    Tel: +41 41 534 66 97
    Mob: +41 78 790 66 97
    Skype: seicodyne
    Member of the DITA Technical Committee
    Chairman of the DITA Machine Industry Subcommittee
     


  • 8.  Re: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 16:54
    Not to be flippant, but I would see the requirement Bruce outlines as being
    obvious to the implementor of any DITA-aware CMS or custom publishing system
    vendor.
    
    I don't think it's the place of the spec to talk about general requirements
    for how to manage and author DITA content--that's simply too open-ended. But
    that seems like exactly the role of the DITA Adoption TC--to clearly
    articulate requirements like this one.
    
    The DITA spec needs to focus on the facts of what it says about the markup
    and direct processing expectations and requirements. General how-to
    information and general "you could do X" or "X would be really helpful" is
    simply not appropriate for a standard.
    
    Or said another way, the standard is law, what Bruce has presented is
    interpretation. They are both important but they belong in different
    documents.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Eliot
    
    On 3/12/09 10:45 AM, "Bruce Nevin (bnevin)" 


  • 9.  RE: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 17:45
    > the standard is law, what Bruce has 
    > presented is interpretation. They are both important but they 
    > belong in different documents.
    
    Does the interpretation/recommendation document exist?
    
    Glad to know that application is so easy. Must be some other reason no vendor has responded to that requirement statement by saying "Oh yes, we do that out of the box."
    
    	/Bruce 
    
    > 


  • 10.  Re: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 18:47
    On 3/12/09 11:44 AM, "Bruce Nevin (bnevin)" 


  • 11.  RE: [dita] use of

    Posted 03-12-2009 18:57
    Thanks again, Eliot.
    
    Another approach would be to conref the