OASIS ebXML Messaging Services TC

  • 1.  [Fwd: Some AS4 queries]

    Posted 07-22-2009 22:36
    
    
    
    
    Makesh... 

    I'm cross-posting your questions to the AS4 and ebMS elists.  I'll provide you some feedback via those lists, and I'm sure there are others on those lists that can help you also.  Thanks for your questions.

    Timothy




  • 2.  RE: [ebxml-msg] [Fwd: Some AS4 queries]

    Posted 08-03-2009 19:42
    
    
    
    
    
     
    My answers below (<JD>).
    -jacques

    -        The spec states that Signal Msg cannot have body. How is bundled msg handled ? Is it thru attachments ? Or does this constraint apply to a pure Signal Message ?

    <JD> only “pure” signal message are supposed to NOT have a body. But the ebMS3 spec allows for some (limited) bundling of signals over other messages (see 5.2.4) and AS4 does not restrict this.

    -        If a msg has to be retried, then is it necessary to again bundle the same user msg, errors etc as original ?

    <JD> No. The retry requirement (optional in AS4) only concerns the User message for which a Receipt was expected.

    -        Does the MSH implementation need to wait for the actual backend service to initiate a pull to the MSH or can it send the pull signal message on its own based on some agreements ?

    <JD> can send the pull signal message on its own. This is an implementation choice and/or agreement choice. In fact, 4 prototype allows for this.

    -        How is the identity of the sender determined from a signal message. From the WSS credentials ?

    <JD> yes – when a Receipt needs be authenticated, it has to be signed. Since it is always associated with a User message, the sender of the Receipt is the “to” party of the User message. If necessary this only needs be confirmed with a signature. A PullSignal is originating more from an MSH than from a back-end sender. It is a low-level mechanism that has to be authorized for the particular channel it is pulling from, and does not need to be associated with a particular sender (several of these could share the same MSH and the same pull channel: the pulled message will be dispatched based on its “to” party). However an implementation could decide to do “pulling on demand” from a Sender. In that case, it is up to the implementation to authenticate the back-end sender , and associate it with the right pull channel (i.e. associate it with the right credentials for authorizing the pull on this channel)

    -        Msg delivery : In a bundled msg, should we assume that an eb:Receipt for a UserMsg means that even the errors/receipts are delivered ? Similarly if the MSH returns error that the User Msg is not delivered, then is the error also not delivered ?

    <JD> At this point, no: the Receipt is only for the User message: it only identifies one MessageID value. Now, Several Receipts could be bundled in the coming Part 2 specification.

    -        Is there a One-One correspondence with User Msg Headers and the number of attachments or can there be more attachments than the headers.

    <JD> There can be as many attachments as needed, each one referred to by an eb:partInfo element inside a single PayloadInfo element, for the same User message. So I guess the answer is: more attachments than [UserMessage] headers.

    -        Can there be multiple payloads for a User Msg Header ? What I wanted to know is how can partners send multiple messages in one User Msg e.g. can multiple quotes be sent as one user message ?

    <JD> Yes. Multiple payloads, in either the soap Body, or as attachments, or as both.

    -        The ebMS speaks about a PullAndPull MEP. Does AS4 support this ?

    <JD> PullAndPull is a two-way MEP (i.e. two User messages in opposite directions). At this point, AS4 only puts requirements to support One-way MEPs. You can of course emulate this using two One-way pull in opposite directions. But AS4 does not require support for two-way MEPs (although a conforming ebMS3 implementation used underneath would support this)

    -        Finally can we have some more sample messages covering some of these scenarios ? So we know how they look on the wire.

    <JD> Acknowledged.

     


    From: Timothy Bennett [mailto:timothy@drummondgroup.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:36 PM
    To: ebxml-msg-as4@lists.oasis-open.org
    Cc: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org; Makesh Rao (marao)
    Subject: [ebxml-msg] [Fwd: Some AS4 queries]

    Makesh... 

    I'm cross-posting your questions to the AS4 and ebMS elists.  I'll provide you some feedback via those lists, and I'm sure there are others on those lists that can help you also.  Thanks for your questions.

    Timothy




  • 3.  RE: [ebxml-msg] [Fwd: Some AS4 queries]

    Posted 08-03-2009 19:42
    
    
    
    
    
     
    My answers below (<JD>).
    -jacques

    -        The spec states that Signal Msg cannot have body. How is bundled msg handled ? Is it thru attachments ? Or does this constraint apply to a pure Signal Message ?

    <JD> only “pure” signal message are supposed to NOT have a body. But the ebMS3 spec allows for some (limited) bundling of signals over other messages (see 5.2.4) and AS4 does not restrict this.

    -        If a msg has to be retried, then is it necessary to again bundle the same user msg, errors etc as original ?

    <JD> No. The retry requirement (optional in AS4) only concerns the User message for which a Receipt was expected.

    -        Does the MSH implementation need to wait for the actual backend service to initiate a pull to the MSH or can it send the pull signal message on its own based on some agreements ?

    <JD> can send the pull signal message on its own. This is an implementation choice and/or agreement choice. In fact, 4 prototype allows for this.

    -        How is the identity of the sender determined from a signal message. From the WSS credentials ?

    <JD> yes – when a Receipt needs be authenticated, it has to be signed. Since it is always associated with a User message, the sender of the Receipt is the “to” party of the User message. If necessary this only needs be confirmed with a signature. A PullSignal is originating more from an MSH than from a back-end sender. It is a low-level mechanism that has to be authorized for the particular channel it is pulling from, and does not need to be associated with a particular sender (several of these could share the same MSH and the same pull channel: the pulled message will be dispatched based on its “to” party). However an implementation could decide to do “pulling on demand” from a Sender. In that case, it is up to the implementation to authenticate the back-end sender , and associate it with the right pull channel (i.e. associate it with the right credentials for authorizing the pull on this channel)

    -        Msg delivery : In a bundled msg, should we assume that an eb:Receipt for a UserMsg means that even the errors/receipts are delivered ? Similarly if the MSH returns error that the User Msg is not delivered, then is the error also not delivered ?

    <JD> At this point, no: the Receipt is only for the User message: it only identifies one MessageID value. Now, Several Receipts could be bundled in the coming Part 2 specification.

    -        Is there a One-One correspondence with User Msg Headers and the number of attachments or can there be more attachments than the headers.

    <JD> There can be as many attachments as needed, each one referred to by an eb:partInfo element inside a single PayloadInfo element, for the same User message. So I guess the answer is: more attachments than [UserMessage] headers.

    -        Can there be multiple payloads for a User Msg Header ? What I wanted to know is how can partners send multiple messages in one User Msg e.g. can multiple quotes be sent as one user message ?

    <JD> Yes. Multiple payloads, in either the soap Body, or as attachments, or as both.

    -        The ebMS speaks about a PullAndPull MEP. Does AS4 support this ?

    <JD> PullAndPull is a two-way MEP (i.e. two User messages in opposite directions). At this point, AS4 only puts requirements to support One-way MEPs. You can of course emulate this using two One-way pull in opposite directions. But AS4 does not require support for two-way MEPs (although a conforming ebMS3 implementation used underneath would support this)

    -        Finally can we have some more sample messages covering some of these scenarios ? So we know how they look on the wire.

    <JD> Acknowledged.

     


    From: Timothy Bennett [mailto:timothy@drummondgroup.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 3:36 PM
    To: ebxml-msg-as4@lists.oasis-open.org
    Cc: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org; Makesh Rao (marao)
    Subject: [ebxml-msg] [Fwd: Some AS4 queries]

    Makesh... 

    I'm cross-posting your questions to the AS4 and ebMS elists.  I'll provide you some feedback via those lists, and I'm sure there are others on those lists that can help you also.  Thanks for your questions.

    Timothy