OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC

  • 1.  Re: [office] OpenDocument TC coordination call minutes 2007-08-13

    Posted 08-14-2007 19:22
    On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 15:14 -0400, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
    > On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 12:29 -0600, Andreas J. Guelzow wrote:
    > > 
    > > Just because current spreadsheets do not use these possibilities, we
    > > really should not prohibit them. There are people putting pictures
    > > graphs and many other widgets on a spreadsheet. The ability to include
    > > tables inside table cells seem to be a quite natural extension of a
    > > spreadsheet.
    > 
    > Sure, but currently no spreadsheet implements that, and certainly if one
    > spreadsheet application implements such a feature, we can consider
    > adding it to the ODF when that happens.
    > 
    > Maybe my use of "disallow" was inappropriate.  How about exclude it from
    > the RNG schema definition?
    
    Or, maybe just state in the spec that its behavior is undefined ?
    
    At least such statement will make our intent more specific.
    
    Kohei
    
    
    


  • 2.  spreadsheet table:cell/table:table was: Re: [office] OpenDocument TCcoordination call minutes 2007-08-13

    Posted 08-15-2007 07:36
    Hi Kohei,
    
    I agree with Andreas here, disallowing it and then putting it back in 
    once we see that we need; thus changing the schema back and forth 
    doesn't really help that much.
    
    I understand that the problem comes somewhat from the perspective of how 
    formulas would be able to access the nested table. Michael already send 
    a message to David et al. from the formula SC to ask their opinion on this.
    
    In principle however I don't think that this is such a big issue. A cell 
    that holds a table may not be so much different from a cell that holds 
    an image: its value-attribute is empty, and that is what would be passed 
    to a formula that references it. My understanding would thus be that a 
    nested table is currently opaque from the point of view of formulas in 
    the surrounding table.
    
    Andreas has suggested some interesting applications for recursive tables 
    in spreadsheet while we were discussing subtables. For instance I recall 
    the idea to use them to represent matrix types. The potential to have 
    this kind of progress would be another reason to keep the schema as it 
    is. A clarification that nested tables cannot be accessed from formulas 
    may be good, if the assumptions that I made above hold. Lets see what 
    the formula experst have to say to this...
    
    Cheers,
    Lars
    
    Kohei Yoshida wrote:
    > On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 15:14 -0400, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
    >> On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 12:29 -0600, Andreas J. Guelzow wrote:
    >>> Just because current spreadsheets do not use these possibilities, we
    >>> really should not prohibit them. There are people putting pictures
    >>> graphs and many other widgets on a spreadsheet. The ability to include
    >>> tables inside table cells seem to be a quite natural extension of a
    >>> spreadsheet.
    >> Sure, but currently no spreadsheet implements that, and certainly if one
    >> spreadsheet application implements such a feature, we can consider
    >> adding it to the ODF when that happens.
    >>
    >> Maybe my use of "disallow" was inappropriate.  How about exclude it from
    >> the RNG schema definition?
    > 
    > Or, maybe just state in the spec that its behavior is undefined ?
    > 
    > At least such statement will make our intent more specific.
    > 
    > Kohei
    > 
    > 
    
    


  • 3.  RE: [office] spreadsheet table:cell/table:table was: Re: [office] OpenDocument TC coordination call minutes 2007-08-13

    Posted 08-16-2007 19:21
    My first reaction to tables within cells was that it was conceptually
    interesting but not supported in products with which I was familiar.
    
    But then I started seeing things about Apple's new spreadsheet,
    "Numbers": I think, at first glance, that it may come close to doing
    something like tables in cells. At least Numbers makes optional the kind
    of numbered rows and lettered collums system that's been in every
    spreadsheet I've used since Supercalc on an Osborne. All of the
    spreadsheets I've seen in the past looked like one big table, though you
    could stake out claims to portions of it. Instead, Numbers gives you a
    blank page, and you can go build multiple independent tables in areas of
    your choice. And you can give each its own coordinate space, with rows
    and columns identified by names of your choice or by traditional
    coordinates (http://www.apple.com/iwork/numbers/#tables).  
    
    Jim Mason
    
    
    From MacCentral:
    
    A new approach to spreadsheets
    
    
    Traditionally, spreadsheet programs have presented users with a
    full-screen grid of rows and columns. Numbers, however, is more like a
    page layout program-you start with a blank canvas, into which you can
    drag as many tables as you need onto the work area. Each table is a
    miniature spreadsheet of its own, complete with its own grid of rows and
    columns, cell formatting options, and row and column heights and widths.
    There are even handy styles, shown in the left-hand of the document
    window, that can be applied to any of your inserted tables. These tables
    are treated like separate objects, and they can be positioned anywhere
    on the page.
    
    This free-form layout feature overcomes one of the big problems with
    traditional spreadsheet programs: it's difficult to make all of the rows
    and columns look attractive when printed (wide cells in one column will
    throw off rows above and below, for example). Since each table in
    Numbers is an independent object, setting differing heights and widths
    for rows and columns has no impact on other tables, and you can easily
    align tables wherever you want them on the page.
    
    http://www.macworld.com/2007/08/reviews/numbers08/index.php
    


  • 4.  Re: [office] spreadsheet table:cell/table:table was: Re: [office] OpenDocument TC coordination call minutes 2007-08-13

    Posted 08-17-2007 06:49
    On 16/08/07, Mason, James David (MXM) 


  • 5.  Re: [office] spreadsheet table:cell/table:table was: Re: [office]OpenDocument TC coordination call minutes 2007-08-13

    Posted 08-17-2007 11:58
    Dave Pawson wrote:
    > On 16/08/07, Mason, James David (MXM) 


  • 6.  Re: [office] spreadsheet table:cell/table:table

    Posted 08-20-2007 13:12
    Hi Lars,
    
    On Wednesday, 2007-08-15 09:36:18 +0200, Lars Oppermann wrote:
    
    > I understand that the problem comes somewhat from the perspective of how 
    > formulas would be able to access the nested table. Michael already send 
    > a message to David et al. from the formula SC to ask their opinion on this.
    
    See my mail
    
    Message-id: <20070820123902.GK54492@sr1-eham02-02.Germany.Sun.COM>
    Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:39:02 +0200
    Subject: Re: [office] Legal child elements of