UBL Transportation SC

MINUTES OF PACIFIC UBL TC MEETING 00:00 UTC TUESDAY 7 AUGUST 2012 ATTENDANCE Jon Bosak (chair) G. Ken Holman Andy Schoka STANDING ITEMS Additions to the calendar: http://ubl.xml.org/events None. Review of Atlantic call minutes (none this week) UBL 2.1 PRD3 HUBDOC On hold pending completion of the definition review. JB: Hoping to have completed the first editorial pass through the Common Library by this time next week. UBL 2.1 PRD3 DEFINITION REVIEW In particular, this issue having to do with "criteria" vs. "criterion": https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-psc/201207/msg00002.html https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-psc/201207/msg00003.html Oops! This item is for the Atlantic TC call. Instead, we discussed the following TSC issue. TRANSPORT VS. TRANSPORTATION For background, see https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-tsc/201207/msg00012.html We seem to be AGREED that the following changes can be made: COMMON LIBRARY TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment TransportationSegmentType -> TransportSegmentType TransportServiceCode -> TransportationServiceCode TransportServiceCodeType -> TransportationServiceCodeType DOCUMENT MODELS UBL-GoodsItemItinerary-2.1 TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment The problem remaining centers around a number of terms containing the substring "TransportService"; this use collides with the adoption of "TransportationService" for what appears to be the same concept in UBL 2.0. In particular, the following proposed changes would involve renaming a document type: UBL-TransportServiceDescription-2.1 -> UBL-TransportationServiceDescription-2.1 TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference And these proposed changes would involve changes to the names of parties: COMMON LIBRARY ResponsibleTransportServiceProviderParty -> ResponsibleTransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks TransportServiceProviderRemarksType -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarksType TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod TransportServiceProviderSpecialTerms -> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTerms TransportServiceProviderSpecialTermsType -> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTermsType DOCUMENT MODELS UBL-TransportExecutionPlan-2.1 TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod UBL-TransportExecutionPlanRequest-2.1 TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod TransportServiceDescription -> TransportationServiceDescription TransportServiceDescriptionType -> TransportationServiceDescriptionType TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty UBL-TransportServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 -> UBL-TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 TransportServiceDescriptionRequest -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest TransportServiceDescriptionRequestType -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestType TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty The argument against making these changes is that they will inconvenience stakeholders that have already begun implementation based on PRD2, despite that fact that PRD2 contains an explicit notice that it is for testing purposes only and should not be used for production and despite that fact that TSC has been making changes and additions to the transportation models until a few weeks ago. The crux of the issue is that the term "Transportation Service" was adopted in UBL 2.0 and that there appears to be no semantic distinction between a Transportation Service and a Transport Service. Absent such a distinction, there is scant justification for using two different terms to refer to the identical concept. ACTION: TSC to consider whether a clear semantic distinction (or, failing that, some operational distinction) can be made between a Transportation Service and a Transport Service, and if so, to produce a clear enunciation of that difference. TC CONCALL SCHEDULE We have tentatively scheduled TC calls through October. Week of 2012.08.06 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.13 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.20 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.27 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.03 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.10 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.17 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.24 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.01 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.08 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.15 *** CANCELLED *** Week of 2012.10.22 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.29 Regular schedule Jon Bosak Chair, OASIS UBL TC

If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' meant the overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved for the verb 'to transport'. As in, "I transport goods using a transportation service". But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary distinction if it causes too much confusion. So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? Doesn't this proposal just swap the terms around? If we cannot easily rationalize to only one term then I suggest we leave them as they are. On 8/08/12 9:28 PM, Jon Bosak wrote: We seem to be AGREED that the following changes can be made: COMMON LIBRARY TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment TransportationSegmentType -> TransportSegmentType TransportServiceCode -> TransportationServiceCode TransportServiceCodeType -> TransportationServiceCodeType DOCUMENT MODELS UBL-GoodsItemItinerary-2.1 TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment The problem remaining centers around a number of terms containing the substring "TransportService"; this use collides with the adoption of "TransportationService" for what appears to be the same concept in UBL 2.0. In particular, the following proposed changes would involve renaming a document type: UBL-TransportServiceDescription-2.1 -> UBL-TransportationServiceDescription-2.1 TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference And these proposed changes would involve changes to the names of parties: COMMON LIBRARY ResponsibleTransportServiceProviderParty -> ResponsibleTransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks TransportServiceProviderRemarksType -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarksType TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod TransportServiceProviderSpecialTerms -> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTerms TransportServiceProviderSpecialTermsType -> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTermsType DOCUMENT MODELS UBL-TransportExecutionPlan-2.1 TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod UBL-TransportExecutionPlanRequest-2.1 TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod TransportServiceDescription -> TransportationServiceDescription TransportServiceDescriptionType -> TransportationServiceDescriptionType TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty UBL-TransportServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 -> UBL-TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 TransportServiceDescriptionRequest -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest TransportServiceDescriptionRequestType -> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestType TransportServiceProviderParty -> TransportationServiceProviderParty The argument against making these changes is that they will inconvenience stakeholders that have already begun implementation based on PRD2, despite that fact that PRD2 contains an explicit notice that it is for testing purposes only and should not be used for production and despite that fact that TSC has been making changes and additions to the transportation models until a few weeks ago. The crux of the issue is that the term "Transportation Service" was adopted in UBL 2.0 and that there appears to be no semantic distinction between a Transportation Service and a Transport Service. Absent such a distinction, there is scant justification for using two different terms to refer to the identical concept. ACTION: TSC to consider whether a clear semantic distinction (or, failing that, some operational distinction) can be made between a Transportation Service and a Transport Service, and if so, to produce a clear enunciation of that difference. TC CONCALL SCHEDULE We have tentatively scheduled TC calls through October. Week of 2012.08.06 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.13 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.20 Regular schedule Week of 2012.08.27 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.03 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.10 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.17 Regular schedule Week of 2012.09.24 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.01 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.08 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.15 *** CANCELLED *** Week of 2012.10.22 Regular schedule Week of 2012.10.29 Regular schedule Jon Bosak Chair, OASIS UBL TC --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-help@lists.oasis-open.org begin:vcard fn:Tim McGrath n:McGrath;Tim org:Document Engineering Services email;internet:tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com title:Managing Director tel;work:+61893352228 tel;home:+61438352228 tel;cell:+61438352228 url:www.documentengineeringservices.com version:2.1 end:vcard

Tim McGrath wrote: > If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' meant the > overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved for the > verb 'to transport'. As in, "I transport goods using a transportation > service". But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary distinction if > it causes too much confusion. > > So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? Doesn't > this proposal just swap the terms around? No. See https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-tsc/201207/msg00012.html for an explanation. Briefly, the proposal is to use "Transport" wherever possible, the only exceptions being TransportationService and TransportationStatus, which we're stuck with from 2.0. Jon

Transport is a noun and a verb while transportation is only a noun. Are ABIE s nouns or verbs? Or both?bothered??? Andy Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
Original message----- From: Jon Bosak <bosak@pinax.com> To: Tim McGrath <tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com> Cc: ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 15:03:24 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: [ubl-tsc] Re: [ubl] Minutes of Pacific UBL TC call 7 August 2012 Tim McGrath wrote: > If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' meant the > overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved for the > verb 'to transport'. As in, I transport goods using a transportation > service . But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary distinction if > it causes too much confusion. > > So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? Doesn't > this proposal just swap the terms around? No. See https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-tsc/201207/msg00012.html for an explanation. Briefly, the proposal is to use Transport wherever possible, the only exceptions being TransportationService and TransportationStatus, which we're stuck with from 2.0. Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org

To be perfectly clear: the question of whether "transport" and "transportation" are semantically distinct relates to their use in UBL. It's obvious that "transport" is the right word in "transports of ecstasy" and that "transportation" is the right word in "The sentence of death was changed into one of transportation for life" (to take an 1879 example from the OED). That's not the issue here. The issue is whether there is a difference between "The action or process of transporting; conveyance (of things or persons) from one place to another" (the primary definition of transportation) and "The action of carrying or conveying a thing or person from one place to another; conveyance" (the primary definition of transport). Looks to me like there isn't one. They both mean "conveyance." Jon amschoka@comcast.net wrote: > Transport is a noun and a verb while transportation is only a noun. Are > ABIE s nouns or verbs? Or both?bothered??? > Andy > > /Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless/ > > >
Original message----- > > *From: *Jon Bosak <bosak@pinax.com>* > To: *Tim McGrath <tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com>* > Cc: *ubl-tsc@lists.oasis-open.org* > Sent: *Wed, Aug 8, 2012 15:03:24 GMT+00:00* > Subject: *Re: [ubl-tsc] Re: [ubl] Minutes of Pacific UBL TC call 7 > August 2012 > > Tim McGrath wrote: > > If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' > meant the > > overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved > for the > > verb 'to transport'. As in, "I transport goods using a transportation > > service". But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary > distinction if > > it causes too much confusion. > > > > So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? > Doesn't > > this proposal just swap the terms around? > > No. See > > https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-tsc/201207/msg00012.html > > for an explanation. Briefly, the proposal is to use "Transport" > wherever possible, the only exceptions being TransportationService and > TransportationStatus, which we're stuck with from 2.0. > > Jon > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org

Ok then I am fine with this proposal. On 8/08/12 11:03 PM, Jon Bosak wrote: Tim McGrath wrote: > If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' meant the > overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved for the > verb 'to transport'. As in, "I transport goods using a transportation > service". But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary distinction if > it causes too much confusion. > > So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? Doesn't > this proposal just swap the terms around? No. See https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-tsc/201207/msg00012.html for an explanation. Briefly, the proposal is to use "Transport" wherever possible, the only exceptions being TransportationService and TransportationStatus, which we're stuck with from 2.0. Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org begin:vcard fn:Tim McGrath n:McGrath;Tim org:Document Engineering Services email;internet:tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com title:Managing Director tel;work:+61893352228 tel;home:+61438352228 tel;cell:+61438352228 url:www.documentengineeringservices.com version:2.1 end:vcard

Hello, I understand it is the same meaning, http://grammarist.com/usage/transport-transportation/ ... my only comment is that "transportation" seems to me only connected to goods transportation, while "transport" is in some way confusing ICT people because it is often used for information transport as well (e.g. OSI transport layer). Cheers, Roberto > If I recall the original idea we had was that 'transportation' meant the > overall concept of transporting goods. 'Transport' was reserved for the > verb 'to transport'. As in, "I transport goods using a transportation > service". But i agree this is a probably an unnecessary distinction if > it causes too much confusion. > > So are we trying to settle on 'Transport' or 'Transportation'? Doesn't > this proposal just swap the terms around? > > If we cannot easily rationalize to only one term then I suggest we leave > them as they are. > > > > > On 8/08/12 9:28 PM, Jon Bosak wrote: >> We seem to be AGREED that the following changes can be made: >> >> COMMON LIBRARY >> >> TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment >> TransportationSegmentType -> TransportSegmentType >> TransportServiceCode -> TransportationServiceCode >> TransportServiceCodeType -> TransportationServiceCodeType >> > DOCUMENT MODELS >> >> UBL-GoodsItemItinerary-2.1 >> >> TransportationSegment -> TransportSegment >> >> The problem remaining centers around a number of terms containing the >> substring "TransportService"; this use collides with the adoption of >> "TransportationService" for what appears to be the same concept in >> UBL 2.0. In particular, the following proposed changes would involve >> renaming a document type: >> >> UBL-TransportServiceDescription-2.1 -> >> UBL-TransportationServiceDescription-2.1 >> TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference >> TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference >> >> And these proposed changes would involve changes to the names of >> parties: >> >> COMMON LIBRARY >> >> ResponsibleTransportServiceProviderParty -> >> ResponsibleTransportationServiceProviderParty >> TransportServiceProviderParty -> >> TransportationServiceProviderParty >> TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> >> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks >> TransportServiceProviderRemarksType -> >> TransportationServiceProviderRemarksType >> TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> >> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod >> TransportServiceProviderSpecialTerms -> >> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTerms >> TransportServiceProviderSpecialTermsType -> >> TransportationServiceProviderSpecialTermsType >> >> DOCUMENT MODELS >> >> UBL-TransportExecutionPlan-2.1 >> >> TransportServiceProviderRemarks -> >> TransportationServiceProviderRemarks >> TransportServiceProviderParty -> >> TransportationServiceProviderParty >> TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference >> TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> >> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod >> >> UBL-TransportExecutionPlanRequest-2.1 >> >> TransportServiceProviderParty -> >> TransportationServiceProviderParty >> TransportServiceDescriptionDocumentReference -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionDocumentReference >> TransportServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod -> >> TransportationServiceProviderResponseDeadlinePeriod >> >> TransportServiceDescription -> >> TransportationServiceDescription >> TransportServiceDescriptionType -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionType >> TransportServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestDocumentReference >> TransportServiceProviderParty -> >> TransportationServiceProviderParty >> >> UBL-TransportServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 -> >> UBL-TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest-2.1 >> >> TransportServiceDescriptionRequest -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequest >> TransportServiceDescriptionRequestType -> >> TransportationServiceDescriptionRequestType >> TransportServiceProviderParty -> >> TransportationServiceProviderParty >> >> The argument against making these changes is that they will >> inconvenience stakeholders that have already begun implementation >> based on PRD2, despite that fact that PRD2 contains an explicit >> notice that it is for testing purposes only and should not be used >> for production and despite that fact that TSC has been making changes >> and additions to the transportation models until a few weeks ago. >> >> The crux of the issue is that the term "Transportation Service" was >> adopted in UBL 2.0 and that there appears to be no semantic >> distinction between a Transportation Service and a Transport >> Service. Absent such a distinction, there is scant justification for >> using two different terms to refer to the identical concept. >> >> ACTION: TSC to consider whether a clear semantic distinction (or, >> failing that, some operational distinction) can be made between a >> Transportation Service and a Transport Service, and if so, to >> produce a clear enunciation of that difference. >> >> TC CONCALL SCHEDULE >> >> We have tentatively scheduled TC calls through October. >> >> Week of 2012.08.06 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.08.13 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.08.20 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.08.27 Regular schedule >> >> Week of 2012.09.03 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.09.10 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.09.17 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.09.24 Regular schedule >> >> Week of 2012.10.01 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.10.08 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.10.15 *** CANCELLED *** >> Week of 2012.10.22 Regular schedule >> Week of 2012.10.29 Regular schedule >> >> Jon Bosak >> Chair, OASIS UBL TC >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-help@lists.oasis-open.org >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-tsc-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-tsc-help@lists.oasis-open.org -- * JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino * * Document Engineering Services Ltd. - Alliance Member * UBL Italian Localization SubCommittee (ITLSC), co-Chair * UBL Online Community editorial board member (ubl.xml.org) * Italian UBL Advisor Roberto Cisternino mobile: +39 328 2148123 skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc [UBL Technical Committee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl [UBL Online Community] http://ubl.xml.org [UBL International Conferences] http://www.ublconference.org [UBL Italian Localization Subcommittee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl-itlsc [Iniziativa divulgativa UBL Italia] http://www.ubl-italia.org