OASIS Web Services Interactive Applications TC

Re: AW: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]

  • 1.  Re: AW: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]

    Posted 05-09-2002 12:35
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    Subject: Re: AW: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]


    
    Dan, thanks, that clarifies things for me.  I agree that it is important to 
    know
    the reason for each of these requirements.  In this case, I would point to the
    first F2F where one of the key issues we discussed was market adoption of
    WSIA.  I'd have to go back to the minutes, but I believe that we agreed 
    that it
    was important that WSIA be constructed in a way that allows for rapid 
    adoption.
    This requirement (along with a couple of others) help to support that goal.
    
    Sean
    
    At 12:10 PM 5/9/2002 -0400, Dan Gisolfi wrote:
    >Sean,
    >Let me clarify.
    >a) my point about "articulating the need" pertains to - why did this
    >requirement show up on the list? who was the original source? What was the
    >original scenario? Who made the inital motion?
    >
    >We have all espressed our opinions but I was trying (not well stated as you
    >pointed out)  to determine how to get to the root issue (prior WSIA work)
    >that triggered the requirement.
    >
    >b) As for my position, I am operating under a premise that any WSIA service
    >will be able to extend any WSDL compliant Web Service. With this premise in
    >mind, I do not see a need to call out or correlate the linkage between WSIA
    >applications and legacy applications. Since, WSIA applications can consist
    >of an aggregation of any number of  software services (including legacy
    >components). Maybe a key hang-up on my end is the definition of a legacy
    >application. Although such an application may have a tighly coupled
    >presentation/interactive layer today, in the WSIA world I see that legacy
    >application to be decomposed into business and data services that can be
    >augmented by WSIA applications and the legacy app developer may leave the
    >presentation layer undefined --- alla Enterprise Services
    >
    >If I am the only one against the inclusion of the requirement for the sake
    >of productivity I will yeild.
    >
    >Does anyone else beleive that this requirement shoul not be included?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Dan Gisolfi
    >
    >
    >Sean Fitts <sean@crossweave.com> on 05/09/2002 11:44:12 AM
    >
    >To:    Dan Gisolfi/Somers/IBM@IBMUS, wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
    >cc:
    >Subject:    Re: AW: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Dan, I have to respectfully disagree with the statement that no one has
    >articulated the reason for this requirement.  The reason, as articulated
    >by Stefan and Greg (among others), is that given that most WSIA
    >implementations will likely be based on existing applications and given
    >the importance of making sure that WSIA will be widely adopted, it is
    >important to make a specific statement that the WSIA group intends to
    >make this possible.
    >
    >This may have little technical significance, but I think it is very
    >important
    >as a statement of intent.  There have been too many standards efforts
    >which have ignored the current market realities and I don't any of us want
    >WSIA to join that list.
    >
    >Now, you may disagree with this reason, but it has been articulated.
    >Let's debate the reasons why you disagree.
    >
    >Personally, I don't think this goes far enough and I would like to see us
    >outline specific scenarios that show a company taking its existing
    >application assets and leveraging them as WSIA services.  If this isn't
    >possible (and fairly easy), then it will hard for WSIA to be widely
    >deployed.
    >
    >That said, I support the proposal to use the phrase "MUST NOT preclude"
    >(in place of MUST enable) as a middle ground.
    >
    >Sean
    >
    >At 07:34 AM 5/9/2002 -0400, Dan Gisolfi wrote:
    > >So far  (no wherei sthi sdebate) has someone articulated the reason for
    > >this requirement. Where did it come from? My position is that we drop it.
    > >Web Services technologies (namely SOAP and WSDL) will address integration
    > >of legacy applications. WSIA will adress the description of how those
    > >legacy (enterprise) services will be interated with..
    > >
    > >Dan Gisolfi
    > >
    > >
    > >Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM@IBMUS on 05/08/2002 08:33:45 AM
    > >
    > >To:    wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
    > >cc:
    > >Subject:    Re: AW: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Do we really expect the specification to do anything to enable this
    > >wrapping of legacy applications? I think the intent to to not preclude
    > >developers from interacting with any back end system they want to.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >                       "Beck, Stefan"
    > >                       <stefan.beck@sap.        To:
    > >                       wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
    > >                       com>                     cc:
    > >                                                Subject:  AW:
    > >                       [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]
    > >                       05/08/2002 03:28
    > >                       AM
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Whats about:
    > >
    > >The specification MUST enable Producers to provide existing legacy
    > >applications and infrastructure as WSIA compliant Web Service.
    > >
    > >Stefan
    > >
    > >
    > >-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
    > >Von: Timothy N. Jones [mailto:tim@crossweave.com]
    > >Gesendet: Montag, 6. Mai 2002 20:00
    > >An: wsia@lists.oasis-open.org
    > >Betreff: RE: [wsia][wsia-requirements][E922]
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >Is there a reason this shouldn't be a "must", i.e.:
    > >
    > >   The specification MUST not preclude Producers from providing the
    > >capability to support legacy applications and infrastructure.
    > >
    > >As long as the protocol between Consumer and Producer is WSIA, it
    >shouldn't
    > >matter what else the producer is doing on the backend.
    > >
    > >Tim
    > >
    > > > Dan, I can see your perspective, but consider the consequences if we
    > >produce
    > > > a specification that prevents us from integrating with legacy
    > >applications.
    > > > Although we are in the domain of web services, the world will not
    >become
    > > > fully WSIA aware for several years, and many of the implementations
    >will
    > >be
    > > > producers exposing existing applications.
    > > > Without the ability to integrate the adoption rate will be low, which
    > >will
    > > > lead us down the path to obscurity.
    > > > I support Eilon's reworded statement, though I'm not sure that
    > > > 'infrastructure' adds anything to the requirement.
    > > > Regards
    > > > Greg
    > > >