OASIS Universal Business Language (UBL) TC

AGENDA FOR ATLANTIC UBL TC MEETING WEDNESDAY 6 August 2014 14:00UTC http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=2014-08-06T14:00:00 CONFERENCING INFO https://www2.gotomeeting.com/join/714594514 Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or call in using your telephone. Australia: +61 (0) 2 9037 1944 Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0034 Belgium: +32 (0) 28 08 9321 Canada: +1 (647) 977-5956 Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 80 05 Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1746 France: +33 (0) 182 880 780 Germany: +49 (0) 892 2061 159 Ireland: +353 (0) 15 290 180 Italy: +39 0 699 26 68 58 Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 908 267 New Zealand: +64 (0) 9 442 7358 Norway: +47 21 54 32 44 Spain: +34 911 23 0850 Sweden: +46 (0) 852 500 612 Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0006 96 United Kingdom: +44 (0) 203 535 0611 United States: +1 (773) 945-1031 Access Code: 714-594-514 Meeting ID: 714-594-514 Audio PIN (deprecated): Shown after joining the meeting Pacific teleconference attendance: Kenneth Bengtsson G. Ken Holman (convener) Tim McGrath Andy Schoka STANDING ITEMS Additions to events calendar: http://ubl.xml.org/events - no events to add at this time Review of Pacific call minutes (copied below as agenda items) https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl/201408/msg00003.html Review of Atlantic call minutes https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl/201407/msg00002.html Membership status review https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process#membership https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=ubl https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl/members/roster.php?num_items=80 - voting status is determined by the following: - existing voting members must not miss two consecutive meetings to maintain voting status - non-voting members must attend two consecutive meetings to obtain voting status - committee officers (alphabetical): - Jon Bosak (secretary) - G. Ken Holman (co-chair) - Tim McGrath (co-chair) - current voting member list (alphabetical): - Oriol Bausa - Kenneth Bengtsson - Peter Borresen - Kees Duvekot - G. Ken Holman - Ole Madsen - Tim McGrath - Andy Schoka - what can we do to recruit more volunteers to the TC to share in the work? JIRA tickets https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/secure/Dashboard.jspa?selectPageId=10170 - no action needed Web site maintenance (committee web site or UBL.xml.org) - no action needed ISO/IEC DIS 19845 Universal Business Language Version 2.1 (UBL v2.1) - awaiting results of National Body ballot for ISO/IEC DIS 19845: http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=66370 OASIS Open Standards Cup - the committee was awarded the first OASIS Open Standards Cup at the Annual General Meeting held 2014-03-30 in Boston: https://www.oasis-open.org/open-standards-cup - Ken accepted the award, presented by our esteemed TC Admin head honcho Chet Ensign, on behalf of the committee (thanks to Jamie Clark for the photograph): https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl/201407/jpgrsmsoSy2GH.jpg Human Interface Subcommittee (HISC) revival - https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/hisc/ - Peter has raised some new output user requirements for HISC - add new purchase order print specification for UN Layout Key (UNLK) - revise existing invoice print specification for UNLK - Ken has been responding by incorporating changes and preparing new publications - do other members of the committee wish to be involved with this task? If so, does it make sense to revive the HISC and have some meetings and share the work load? UBL TC next steps - what promotional issues need to be addressed? - UBL 2 is an organic thing that can be grown - what do we do for implementation support? - should we write a companion document of how to use the specification? - industry-specific documentation? - make it easier to find what is relevant without changing the actual specification - how about another UBL International conference in order to promote the release of UBL 2.1? Can anyone host this conference? http://ublconference.com or http://ublconference.org - perhaps an event in North America and in Europe in 2014/2015 - Washington DC, Burlington MA (OASIS)? - Stockholm in September? December? - how about a Twitter feed of UBL adoption and announcements? - what subject matter issues need to be addressed? - more transportation co-ordination issues - communications with transportation regulatory organizations - DBE-Core Information Set requirements? - what technical issues need to be addressed? - are any schema changes needed? - what educational materials need to be made available? - how about YouTube videos regarding access to the UBL package? TC CONCALL SCHEDULE Next meetings: 2014-08-13 Pacific 00:00UTC/20:00EDT, Atlantic 14:00UTC/16:00CEST/10:00EDT 2014-08-20 No calls unless requested by a member in advance 2014-08-27 No calls unless requested by a member in advance 2014-09-03 Pacific 00:00UTC/20:00EDT, Atlantic 14:00UTC/16:00CEST/10:00EDT Will anyone be requesting a leave of absence in the near future? For privacy reasons, this discussion will be kept off of the minutes. TC calendar: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/calendar.php?wg_abbrev=ubl TC calendar iCal subscription link: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup_feeds/ical/my_vcalendar.ics?token=fa658a7994a6cefb10c10be09e139af3&workgroup_id=50 OTHER BUSINESS - as comes forward -- Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com Google+ profile: http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hello UBL TC, I raise the need to have more PO references in the Invoice/CreditNote header to meet actual needs. cac:OrderReference (0..n) Il 06/08/2014 3.58, G. Ken Holman ha scritto:   - what technical issues need to be addressed?     - are any schema changes needed? Best regards Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc

Roberto,   Could you describe in some more detail why you would like to have this?   If I would raise an invoice/creditnote that spans multiple PO’s then I would list the PO/POLine reference on each invoice line and not on the header level. (I would not even populate that in the header, even in very simple cases) And my assumption is that each InvoiceLine can only point to one POLine. If I have multiple PO Line from different orders that I would like to invoice then I would still separate them on invoice level. It could be that pricing/discounts can be different between those lines even if the item is the same. Even if you would have multiple PO references at header level, then the recipient would not know which order a specific line relates to. So they will have difficulty processing the invoice  and would still need to find the lower level (POLine/InvoiceLine) reference for matchings purposes in their accounts payable system.   But maybe you have a different use-case that I am not thinking about.   Kees Duvekot     Van: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:ubl@lists.oasis-open.org] Namens Javest IMAP Verzonden: woensdag 6 augustus 2014 7:22 Aan: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org Onderwerp: Re: [ubl] Agenda for Atlantic UBL TC call 6 August 2014 14:00UTC   Hello UBL TC, I raise the need to have more PO references in the Invoice/CreditNote header to meet actual needs. cac:OrderReference (0..n) Il 06/08/2014 3.58, G. Ken Holman ha scritto:   - what technical issues need to be addressed?     - are any schema changes needed? Best regards Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc

Hi Roberto   If you have more than one, use the reference on the line level.   /Peter   Fra: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:ubl@lists.oasis-open.org] På vegne af Javest IMAP Sendt: 6. august 2014 07:22 Til: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org Emne: Re: [ubl] Agenda for Atlantic UBL TC call 6 August 2014 14:00UTC   Hello UBL TC, I raise the need to have more PO references in the Invoice/CreditNote header to meet actual needs. cac:OrderReference (0..n) Il 06/08/2014 3.58, G. Ken Holman ha scritto:   - what technical issues need to be addressed?     - are any schema changes needed? Best regards Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc

I see Peter, but I could not have that level of detail. The requirement is simply to support the case where an invoice is related to one or more purchase orders. Il 06/08/2014 9.16, Peter Borresen ha scritto: Hi Roberto   If you have more than one, use the reference on the line level.   /Peter   Fra: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org [ mailto:ubl@lists.oasis-open.org ] På vegne af Javest IMAP Sendt: 6. august 2014 07:22 Til: ubl@lists.oasis-open.org Emne: Re: [ubl] Agenda for Atlantic UBL TC call 6 August 2014 14:00UTC   Hello UBL TC, I raise the need to have more PO references in the Invoice/CreditNote header to meet actual needs. cac:OrderReference (0..n) Il 06/08/2014 3.58, G. Ken Holman ha scritto:   - what technical issues need to be addressed?     - are any schema changes needed? Best regards Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2014.0.4716 / Database dei virus: 3986/7990 - Data di rilascio: 06/08/2014 -- Cordiali saluti Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc begin:vcard fn:Roberto Cisternino n:Cisternino;Roberto org:JAVEST adr:;;Via Europa, 33/F;Follo;La Spezia;19020;ITALY email;internet:roberto.cisternino@javest.com tel;cell:+39 328 2148123 url:htttp://www.javest.com version:2.1 end:vcard

At 2014-08-06 10:05 +0200, JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino wrote: I see Peter, but I could not have that level of detail. The requirement is simply to support the case where an invoice is related to one or more purchase orders. I understand you see this as a simple requirement, Roberto, but may I ask you, please, to elaborate how such a change would be exploited by users? During today's teleconference the point was raised that the header reference is used as a kind of default for the line items that do not have a specific reference. If more than one order is allowed to be referenced at the header level, the absence of a line reference would be ambiguous and prevent processing software to reliably match invoice items to order items. I've recognized your requirement in the committee's JIRA project: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/UBL-8 Meanwhile, could you either comment there (your committee membership should be enough credentials) or here on the list? Thanks for this input! . . . . . . Ken -- Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com Google+ profile: http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Dear Ken/Roberto/all We too have users (several actually) who require to reference more than one purchase order from an invoice. It is a convenience both for the buyers and suppliers to be able to bill products and services from several purchase orders in one big invoice. They argue that it simplifies their payment processes. We even have a user (at least one) where the relation between purchase orders and invoices is many to many. We use the AdditionalDocumentReference element to support these processes. We haven't had a requirement from these users to automatically match invoice items to order items. Best regards, Kenneth On 8/6/14, 10:22 AM, "G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com> wrote: >At 2014-08-06 10:05 +0200, JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino wrote: >>I see Peter, >>but I could not have that level of detail. >> >>The requirement is simply to support the case where an invoice is >>related to one or more purchase orders. > >I understand you see this as a simple requirement, Roberto, but may I >ask you, please, to elaborate how such a change would be exploited by >users? > >During today's teleconference the point was raised that the header >reference is used as a kind of default for the line items that do not >have a specific reference. If more than one order is allowed to be >referenced at the header level, the absence of a line reference would >be ambiguous and prevent processing software to reliably match >invoice items to order items. > >I've recognized your requirement in the committee's JIRA project: > > https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/UBL-8 > >Meanwhile, could you either comment there (your committee membership >should be enough credentials) or here on the list? > >Thanks for this input! > >. . . . . . Ken > > >-- >Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training >Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm >Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ >G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com >Google+ profile: http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about >Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal > > >--- >This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus >protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >

At 2014-08-06 15:52 +0000, Kenneth Bengtsson wrote: We too have users (several actually) who require to reference more than one purchase order from an invoice. It is a convenience both for the buyers and suppliers to be able to bill products and services from several purchase orders in one big invoice. They argue that it simplifies their payment processes. We even have a user (at least one) where the relation between purchase orders and invoices is many to many. And this is currently accommodated at the line level, where every invoice line can be associated with an order line in any purchase order. We use the AdditionalDocumentReference element to support these processes. Interesting ... so the association is at the header level, which matches Roberto's requirement. We haven't had a requirement from these users to automatically match invoice items to order items. Of course the process is optional ... but the line items were designed to, at the least, support the relationship. Thank you for your input! . . . . . . Ken -- Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com Google+ profile: http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Ken, the absence of an OrderLineReference means exaclty that the invoice is binded as a whole to one or more orders without further details. To keep the connection with a precise order from the line the cac:OrderLineReference/cac:OrderReference can be used. Thanks Roberto Il 06/08/2014 17.22, G. Ken Holman ha scritto: At 2014-08-06 10:05 +0200, JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino wrote: I see Peter, but I could not have that level of detail. The requirement is simply to support the case where an invoice is related to one or more purchase orders. I understand you see this as a simple requirement, Roberto, but may I ask you, please, to elaborate how such a change would be exploited by users? During today's teleconference the point was raised that the header reference is used as a kind of default for the line items that do not have a specific reference.  If more than one order is allowed to be referenced at the header level, the absence of a line reference would be ambiguous and prevent processing software to reliably match invoice items to order items. I've recognized your requirement in the committee's JIRA project:   https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/UBL-8 Meanwhile, could you either comment there (your committee membership should be enough credentials) or here on the list? Thanks for this input! . . . . . . Ken -- Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm Crane Softwrights Ltd.            http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ G. Ken Holman                   mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com Google+ profile:      http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about Legal business disclaimers:    http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php ----- Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2014.0.4716 / Database dei virus: 3986/7993 -  Data di rilascio: 06/08/2014 -- Cordiali saluti Roberto Cisternino JAVEST By Roberto Cisternino P.IVA: IT01290640117 C.F.: CSTRRT68M06E463H Document Engineering Services, Director Associate OASIS Member TESISQUARE Partner Mobile: +39 328 2148123 Skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc begin:vcard fn:Roberto Cisternino n:Cisternino;Roberto org:JAVEST adr:;;Via Europa, 33/F;Follo;La Spezia;19020;ITALY email;internet:roberto.cisternino@javest.com tel;cell:+39 328 2148123 url:htttp://www.javest.com version:2.1 end:vcard

At 2014-08-06 18:08 +0200, JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino wrote: the absence of an OrderLineReference means exaclty that the invoice is binded as a whole to one or more orders without further details. So noted. I'll let the others comment ... I just wanted to ensure there were no further details you could offer that would help illuminate the issue. To keep the connection with a precise order from the line the cac:OrderLineReference/cac:OrderReference can be used. Yes, that is the intention. Thank you for bringing this requirement to light. . . . . . . . Ken -- Contact us for world-wide XML consulting and instructor-led training Free 5-hour lecture: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/links/video.htm Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/o/ G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com Google+ profile: http://plus.google.com/+GKenHolman-Crane/about Legal business disclaimers: http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/legal --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com