OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC

Hi all,   I see a need to find a robust mechanism to allow sorting of elements (or whole topics) depending on output, which is universe to its nature meaning that such a mechanism must not be bound to a specific type of information, business rule or content domain. The solution must allow DITA users (writers) to sort elements when processing DITA content, without forcing them to build complex content models.   The collation has been discussed here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/22252 . The collation idea has not been discussed in DITA machine industry SC, since sorting of elements, depending on output, is universal and does not only occur within a specific business context.   Collation (sorting) is not supported in DITA 1.2. I have understood that there is at least one 1.3 proposal for adding more general sorting support to DITA 1.3, but I cannot find it in the DITA 1.3 proposal list. Maybe someone could help me find it (or is it proposal 13010?)? The question is if a sorting proposal should be made for DITA 1.3. Are there anyone else, except me, that has a requirement to sort markup depending on output?   Best regards, Jonatan  

Jonatan, The TC has directed me to respond. Proposal 13010, which was originally just for glossary sorting, has been expended to allow proposal of a more general "sort-as" mechanism, which the TC agrees is important. I am the primary owner of this proposal and will be preparing a formal proposal in the coming weeks. If you have specific requirements or use cases or ideas for implementation details please forward them to me. Thanks, Eliot On 12/20/11 1:37 AM, "Jonatan Lundin" <Jonatan.Lundin@citec.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I see a need to find a robust mechanism to allow sorting of elements (or whole > topics) depending on output, which is universe to its nature meaning that such > a mechanism must not be bound to a specific type of information, business rule > or content domain. The solution must allow DITA users (writers) to sort > elements when processing DITA content, without forcing them to build complex > content models. > > The collation has been discussed here: > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/22252 . The collation > idea has not been discussed in DITA machine industry SC, since sorting of > elements, depending on output, is universal and does not only occur within a > specific business context. > > Collation (sorting) is not supported in DITA 1.2. I have understood that there > is at least one 1.3 proposal for adding more general sorting support to DITA > 1.3, but I cannot find it in the DITA 1.3 proposal list. Maybe someone could > help me find it (or is it proposal 13010?)? The question is if a sorting > proposal should be made for DITA 1.3. Are there anyone else, except me, that > has a requirement to sort markup depending on output? > > Best regards, > Jonatan > > > > > -- Eliot Kimber Senior Solutions Architect "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together" Main: 512.554.9368 www.reallysi.com www.rsuitecms.com

Hi Eliot, Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to hear that the TC finds a more general sort-as mechanism important. I've drafted a suggestion for a sort-as mechanism, which in some sense is aligned to the index-sort-as possibility in DITA 1.2 (see attached doc). Do let me know your thoughts on the suggested mechanism. There are probably several scenarios (combinations with other DITA features etc) that could make the suggested mechanism awkward and difficult to use. My suggestion is to first conclude on a basic approach and then evaluate it against more complex content model scenarios before a formal proposal can be made. My only requirement is that it must be possible to sort elements without being forced to repeat any "end user visible" content or use conref/key-keyref constructs, since both repeating content and use conref/key-keyref constructs makes life of a writer/designer unnecessary complex. Best regards, Jonatan ________________________________________ From: Eliot Kimber [ekimber@reallysi.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:34 PM To: Jonatan Lundin; dita Subject: Re: [dita] Proposal for sorting elements/topics differently depending on output Jonatan, The TC has directed me to respond. Proposal 13010, which was originally just for glossary sorting, has been expended to allow proposal of a more general "sort-as" mechanism, which the TC agrees is important. I am the primary owner of this proposal and will be preparing a formal proposal in the coming weeks. If you have specific requirements or use cases or ideas for implementation details please forward them to me. Thanks, Eliot On 12/20/11 1:37 AM, "Jonatan Lundin" <Jonatan.Lundin@citec.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I see a need to find a robust mechanism to allow sorting of elements (or whole > topics) depending on output, which is universe to its nature meaning that such > a mechanism must not be bound to a specific type of information, business rule > or content domain. The solution must allow DITA users (writers) to sort > elements when processing DITA content, without forcing them to build complex > content models. > > The collation has been discussed here: > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/22252 . The collation > idea has not been discussed in DITA machine industry SC, since sorting of > elements, depending on output, is universal and does not only occur within a > specific business context. > > Collation (sorting) is not supported in DITA 1.2. I have understood that there > is at least one 1.3 proposal for adding more general sorting support to DITA > 1.3, but I cannot find it in the DITA 1.3 proposal list. Maybe someone could > help me find it (or is it proposal 13010?)? The question is if a sorting > proposal should be made for DITA 1.3. Are there anyone else, except me, that > has a requirement to sort markup depending on output? > > Best regards, > Jonatan > > > > > -- Eliot Kimber Senior Solutions Architect "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together" Main: 512.554.9368 www.reallysi.com www.rsuitecms.com Attachment: Draft suggestion for a sort-as mechanism.docx Description: Draft suggestion for a sort-as mechanism.docx

Dear OASIS DITA TC committee, I would like to submit an idea for future expansion of DITA, to also include support for management of customer/technical support case content. The idea has been discussed here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/26142 and also to some extent here: http://idratherbewriting.com/2012/02/02/a-reverse-approach-to-help-authoring-wri ting-documentation-post-release/. Some background: End users of technical products/systems are active and goal oriented and they often do not read the whole manual to comprehend before using the product. Many users first try to use the product based on prior experience and knowledge (mental models etc). If they get stuck due to that prior knowledge is insufficient, they need information and what they do is ask a question. A search process is initiated. Users consult the manual believing that it will give an answer to the question. Or they call the support center. Technical communicators are actually answering questions, or that is what they should be doing and not describe features of a product etc. DITA is used to manage answers and one (1) topic shall answer one question. In fact, technical communicators are predicting user questions, since many of us develop documentation before the product is launched to the market (and thus, at that time no questions are asked). What do support people do? Simply put, they are reacting on user questions – hopefully giving the user a proper answer. Support centers and techdoc departments are often working in different silos, since no content is reused in-between (there are of course exceptions). Why have several different "answering processes" within a company? Meaning, in many cases the same question is answered twice. If DITA could be extended to also include markup to allow support departments manage their content, according to for example KCS (Knowledge Centered Support) methodology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Centered_Support), many benefits could be foreseen from a content reuse perspective. Just an idea. Best regards, Jonatan

The DITA TechComm subcommittee is working on developing a solution for troubleshooting content that will go a long way to addressing the needs of the technical support community.
In the meantime, you may want to look at the IBM/DITA troubleshooting topic for guidance.

Cheers,
Rob Hanna


Senior Information Architect
Knowledge Consulting - Innovatia Inc.
+1 (506) 674-5660

http://twitter.com/singlesourceror
 

From : Jonatan Lundin [mailto:Jonatan.Lundin@citec.com]

Sent : Friday, March 30, 2012 04:31 AM
To : dita@lists.oasis-open.org <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject : [dita] Integrate support for management of customer/technical support case content in DITA?

 




Dear OASIS DITA TC committee,
I would like to submit an idea for future expansion of DITA, to also include support for management of customer/technical support case content.
The idea has been discussed here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/26142 and also to some extent here:

http://idratherbewriting.com/2012/02/02/a-reverse-approach-to-help-authoring-wri
ting-documentation-post-release/.

Some background:
End users of technical products/systems are active and goal oriented and they often do not read the whole manual to comprehend before using the product. Many users first try to use the product based on prior experience and knowledge (mental models etc). If
they get stuck due to that prior knowledge is insufficient, they need information and what they do is ask a question. A search process is initiated. Users consult the manual believing that it will give an answer to the question. Or they call the support center.
Technical communicators are actually answering questions, or that is what they should be doing and not describe features of a product etc. DITA
is used to manage answers and one (1) topic shall answer one question. In fact, technical communicators are predicting user questions, since many of us develop documentation before the product is launched to the market (and thus, at that time no questions
are asked).

What do support people do? Simply put, they are reacting on user questions – hopefully giving the user a proper answer. Support centers and techdoc departments are often working in different silos, since no content is reused in-between (there are of course
exceptions). Why have several different "answering processes" within a company? Meaning, in many cases the same question is answered twice. If DITA could be extended to also include markup to allow support departments manage their content, according to for
example KCS (Knowledge Centered Support) methodology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Centered_Support), many benefits could be foreseen from a content reuse perspective.
Just an idea.
Best regards,
Jonatan

Hi,   There is a proposal, placed many years ago, from the Machine Industry SC for troubleshooting content (number 13018): "Troubleshooting / Diagnostics proposal". The ongoing work on the troubleshooting proposal 13097 is very much covering the needs from a machine industry perspective from my point of view. So maybe the proposal 13018 can be withdrawn.   But I guess there is a need for the Machine Industry SC to look into the current 13097 proposal and communicate any additional requirements, for example support for FMEA. Br, Jonatan   From: Rob Hanna [rob.hanna@Innovatia.net] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:32 PM To: Jonatan Lundin; dita@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [dita] Integrate support for management of customer/technical support case content in DITA? The DITA TechComm subcommittee is working on developing a solution for troubleshooting content that will go a long way to addressing the needs of the technical support community. In the meantime, you may want to look at the IBM/DITA troubleshooting topic for guidance. Cheers, Rob Hanna Senior Information Architect Knowledge Consulting - Innovatia Inc. +1 (506) 674-5660 http://twitter.com/singlesourceror   From : Jonatan Lundin [mailto:Jonatan.Lundin@citec.com] Sent : Friday, March 30, 2012 04:31 AM To : dita@lists.oasis-open.org <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> Subject : [dita] Integrate support for management of customer/technical support case content in DITA?   Dear OASIS DITA TC committee, I would like to submit an idea for future expansion of DITA, to also include support for management of customer/technical support case content. The idea has been discussed here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dita-users/message/26142 and also to some extent here: http://idratherbewriting.com/2012/02/02/a-reverse-approach-to-help-authoring-wri ting-documentation-post-release/. Some background: End users of technical products/systems are active and goal oriented and they often do not read the whole manual to comprehend before using the product. Many users first try to use the product based on prior experience and knowledge (mental models etc). If they get stuck due to that prior knowledge is insufficient, they need information and what they do is ask a question. A search process is initiated. Users consult the manual believing that it will give an answer to the question. Or they call the support center. Technical communicators are actually answering questions, or that is what they should be doing and not describe features of a product etc. DITA is used to manage answers and one (1) topic shall answer one question. In fact, technical communicators are predicting user questions, since many of us develop documentation before the product is launched to the market (and thus, at that time no questions are asked). What do support people do? Simply put, they are reacting on user questions – hopefully giving the user a proper answer. Support centers and techdoc departments are often working in different silos, since no content is reused in-between (there are of course exceptions). Why have several different "answering processes" within a company? Meaning, in many cases the same question is answered twice. If DITA could be extended to also include markup to allow support departments manage their content, according to for example KCS (Knowledge Centered Support) methodology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Centered_Support), many benefits could be foreseen from a content reuse perspective. Just an idea. Best regards, Jonatan