Submitter's message ActionItems:
1. Dawn will find examples wrt ditaval groups, and make them anonymous so we can use them.
2. Zoe will supply draft example for section 7.4.9.4 'Flagging with @outputclass'
3. Dawn will provide examples for 7.4.9.5 and 7.4.9.8
4. Kris will fix problems with 7.4.9.7, which among other things has the wrong title.
5. Eliot will update content for 7.4.9.4.
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Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 20 May 2025
Recorded by Nancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/wiki/Previous-agendas
Attendance:
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Robert Anderson, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Bob Johnson, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Christina Rothwell, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Leo Belchikov
Business
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Regrets: Eric Sirois, Leroy Steinbacher
1. Approve minutes from previous business meeting
06 May 2025
https://groups.oasis-open.org/discussion/dita-tc-minutes-6-may-2025-uploaded
Kris moved, 2nd by ???, approved by TC
2. Announcements - none
3. Exploring Line Spacing Challenges and Best Practices for Task Steps in DITA
Christina Rothwell
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/wiki/DITA-2.0-base-specification-work#examples-for-conditional-processing
Eliot, saw it, not sure about response
Kris; will leave it on til Christina is back, any comments?
[none]
4. Examples for conditional processing
Wiki page
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/wiki/DITA-2.0-base-specification-work#examples-for-conditional-processing
- Kris; this is one big remaining piece of work before we can review conditional processing. let's look at examples and work out what to do about them, see if there are samples that can be offered.
- Eliot; what about the example after that, should it be moved?
- Zoe; I have a ditaval set as a possible draft, it has flagging to mark change content matched to content. would that ype of example be useful?
- Eliot; sounds great
- Kris; it would be very useful, we had a very general case of flagging. at IBM, used flagging to show a system icon
- Zoe; we also used it to make sure things were toggle-able, also a useful use case, might be worth seeing, can use it for either flagging or output.
- Kris; our examples are where we get closer to 'user content'
- Eliot, we have examples, just not in the right places
- Kris; if we have simpler examples of flagging, do we then need any changes to the current outputclass example?
- Bob; I found it challenging to parse, given 5 list items and five things to consider.
- Kris; if we were to simplify, how to do it?
- Eliot; I'm sure there's a simpler example; using outputlclass is much more flexible than our pure flagging.
- Zoe; this isn't so associated with flagging because it's not with ditaval.
- Eliot; but you're conecting outputclass to ditaval flagging
- Zoe; I'd glossed over that.
- Kris; this topic is hard to parse; if we had a simpler example, rather then a more complex one, it might be better..
- Zoe; do we talk about outputclass being available thru filtering/flagging?
- Kris; you can't filter based on outputclass.
- Robert; first rule is about rendering.
- Zoe; but we don't talk about
- Robert; I would expect flagging based on metadata to include that infomation, but don't see it there
- Kris; if this section doesn't mention outputclass, but then you come to example that has outputclass, there's a cognitive gap.
- Nancy; so it should be mentioned that adding css class is one thing you can do with flagging.
- Kris; so, not a great example, and no one won't be
***ActionItem: Kris will add outputclass to topic about conditional processing, should maybe be a topic on 'conditional processing and flagging', and and one on 'flagging based on metadata @s'.
- Bob; using both include and exclude in a single ditaval file can get really complicated results, might not go thru verification/validation, don't know where to say that.
- Kris; don't know if we can say that in spec, probably a CN thing. best we could do in spec is a general statement, very carefully crafted.
- Kris; if we can get 2.0 out the door, we can start working on CNs which would be very helpful.
- Bob; it was a medical device company, different info required by different regulatory bodies, they tried to do it in one topic with conditional processing.
- Kris; using conkeyref, instead of conditional processing, makes this much more usable.
- Bob; a situation that just sort of grew, from a small system where conditional process worked, to a complicated situation where it didn't.
- Kris; it's hard to ask people to do, when they start, to ask what they're actually doing, and what will happen if it has to scale?
- Stan; not unique to DITA. in product ;
- Kris; we do that but only in examples, we can't do it in normative text.
- Kris; lets look at one more example; most folks just don't understand filtering based on groups.
- Eliot; the topic is missing a discussion of generalization syntac or @props, thats's what is key to this. where do these groups come from?
- Kris; and no related links to that info, so it's clearly missing. who on this call is using this approach - filtering based on groups?
- Eliot; i've used it, Oxygen doesn't make it easy...
- Dawn; I agree, challenges to using it.
- Eliot; but Oxygen does support grouping syntac
- Kris; Dawn, do you have any examples that might be clearer than what we have here?
***ActionItem: Dawn will find examples wrt ditaval groups, and make them anonymous so we can use them.
- Kris wrt ditaval with conditions for groups, is it just an order problem? Do we need to put topics in a different order?
- Eliot; I think they should be together.
- Dawn; I agree, should be back to back, or combined into one topic
- Kris; in some of these, sheer amount of content obscures the connections between different topics.
- Eliot; ;needs more editorial work to hammar these out.
- Kris; Dawn, if you could tackle these two, that would be great. I'll take on the 'incorrect doc' one; it's clearly covered in the arch spec. This was probably just a placeholder, though even the title is wrong
***ActionItem: Zoe will supply draft example for section 7.4.9.4 'Flagging with @outputclass'
***ActionItem: Dawn will provide examples for 7.4.9.5 and 7.4.9.8
***ActionItem: Kris will fix problems with 7.4.9.7, which among other things has the wrong title.
***ActionItem: Eliot will update content for 7.4.9.4.
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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Nancy Harrison
Principal, Infobridge Solutions
Nancy Harrison (Personal)
978-505-9189
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