EM CAP Profiles SC

Wikipedia offers a pretty good definition of "Profile (engineering)":

"In standardization, a profile consists of an agreed-upon subset and
interpretation of a specification. Many complex technical specifications
have many optional features, such that two conforming implementations
may not inter-operate due to choosing different sets of optional
features to support. Even when no formal optional features exist within
a standard, vendors will often fail to implement (or fail to implement
correctly) functionality from the standard which they view as
unimportant. In particular, implementations of standards on mobile
devices often have significant limitations compared to their traditional
desktop implementations, even if the standard which governs both permits
such limitations. Also, some writers of standards sometimes produce
vague or ambiguous specifications, often unintentionally, but sometimes
by intention. The use of profiles can enforce one possible
interpretation."

- Art

>>> Rex Brooks 

> "In standardization, a profile consists of an agreed-upon subset and
> interpretation of a specification. Many complex technical specifications

This definition is very broad and while suitable as a generalization for something like Wikipedia, it is not specific enough to provide direction for a standards technical body.  I think there needs to be some specific criteria outlined that determines what constitutes a "profile" and guidelines for their creation and submission to the TC.

For instance in the above quoted statement, the term "subset" is used.  Can a CAP profile be a subset of CAP?  If not, then this commonly understood use for a profile needs to be clarified.  If yes, then how is this accomplished?

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

Regrettably life on the technical frontier is rarely so tidy.  Iif we
indulge in premature rules about things we don't yet understand, we risk
inadvertently tying our own hands for later.  And to what end?  It seems
like we're doing fine in terms of identifying and harmonizing the
collection of constraints that comprise this Profile.  I suspect by the
time we're done with the substance we'll find that the form... how to
document it... is pretty obvious.

Jacob asks, "Can a CAP profile be a subset of CAP?"  Yes, that's what a
standard profile is, by the cited definition and by every usage of the
term I've ever encountered.  It's accomplished by asserting a set of
constraints and requirements which should or must be met within the
broader constraints of the CAP spec itself. Thus messages that conform
to the profile are a subset of all possible CAP messages.   How exactly
those additional constraints are expressed may vary depending on their
nature, and I'm not of the belief that the format is of the essence.

Really, I'd urge us not to fall into the trap of making this more
complicated than it actually is.

- Art

> collection of constraints that comprise this Profile.  I suspect by the
> time we're done with the substance we'll find that the form... 

I don't think discussing profiles in general will in any way hinder this effort, there is good consensus on the approach so far.  However I don't think it can be assumed that this profile will establish all of the use cases for profiles and so a higher level discussion with some other hypothetical use cases could be useful.  There are a number that I can think of just off the top of my head.

> Jacob asks, "Can a CAP profile be a subset of CAP?"  Yes, that's what a
> standard profile is, by the cited definition and by every usage of the
> term I've ever encountered.  It's accomplished by asserting a set of

The RSS profile is a good example where there is no "subset" at all, only an "interpretation" of the spec. 

> constraints and requirements which should or must be met within the
> broader constraints of the CAP spec itself. Thus messages that conform

Adding constraints and requirements does not create a subset.  To create a subset, some of the optional and potentially required elements of the CAP spec would have to be dropped in the profile.  Such as Profile X saying an area block can only have areaDesc and polygon elements, nothing else.

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

>The RSS profile is a good example where there is no "subset" at all,
only an "interpretation" of the spec. 

Um... not sure which RSS profile you're talking about.  In any event, I
think this is really just a difference of interpretation of the term
"subset."

>To create a subset, some of the optional and potentially required
elements of the CAP spec would have to be dropped in the profile.  

All profile-compliant messages are valid CAP, but not all valid CAP is
profile-compliant.  In that sense the profile defines a subset of the
universe of possible CAP messages.  However, "interpretation" is also
within the working definition.  Not sure what the practical issue is
here.

- Art

My $0.02:

Outside of the CAP Canadian Profile, I have not yet found the term 
defined in a specification document or candidate specification 
document. Doesn't mean no one has done it, just that I haven't found 
it yet.

The CAP/CP definition is minimal. I would only ask us to define 
"Profile" as part of our Terminology Section if there's a consensus 
that there is substantive reason to say: "As used in this document..."

Otherwise, there's no need. Perhaps someday, someone will tackle it, 
but if we don't need to, in my opinion, we shouldn't.

Cheers,
Rex

At 10:29 AM -0800 12/29/08, Art Botterell wrote:
>  >The RSS profile is a good example where there is no "subset" at all,
>only an "interpretation" of the spec.
>
>Um... not sure which RSS profile you're talking about.  In any event, I
>think this is really just a difference of interpretation of the term
>"subset."
>
>>To create a subset, some of the optional and potentially required
>elements of the CAP spec would have to be dropped in the profile. 
>
>All profile-compliant messages are valid CAP, but not all valid CAP is
>profile-compliant.  In that sense the profile defines a subset of the
>universe of possible CAP messages.  However, "interpretation" is also
>within the working definition.  Not sure what the practical issue is
>here.
>
>- Art
>
>
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-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670

> Um... not sure which RSS profile you're talking about.  In any event, I

http://www.rssboard.org/rss-profile

> universe of possible CAP messages.  However, "interpretation" is also
> within the working definition.  Not sure what the practical issue is
> here.

There are a number of practical issues but the main one being whether the profile results in a new namespace.

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

>>> Jacob Westfall 

> I think very definitely the answer to that one would be "no."  What
> else?

I'm in agreement with this.  However it means the accepted definition of an XML profile, which usually results in a new namespace, does not apply, and that's why a good profile definition is needed.  So following this course of action, to start, some criteria to help define a CAP profile.  Just spit-balling here, please remove/change/add to this list.

Some things a profile "cannot" do are:
- establish a new namespace
- add, make changes, or create subsets of the base CAP schema, its elements, and enumerated/defined values
- extend a CAP message, in the conventional XML sense, through the use of namespaced schemas

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

Jacob, what is this "accepted definition of an XML profile" to which you
refer?

- Art


>>> Jacob Westfall 

> Jacob, what is this "accepted definition of an XML profile" to which you
> refer?

Oops thats a typo, it should have been "common understanding".  I have yet to find a definative guide for XML profiles, if anyone has one please let me know.  By understanding I mean the first thing that someone usually mentions when you ask about XML profiles is creating your own custom schema and namespace accordingly.  Everyone has their own definition, but in my search this seems to be the prevailing one.

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

There is one thing a profile cannot do. It cannot remove required elements
or make them optional. It can choose to ignore them, but the message must
still contain them, and they must be interpretable based on the definitions
of the standard. (Even the NWEM Standard does that.)

R/s

Gary A. Ham
http://grandpaham.com
703-899-6241
Grandpa can do IT!
 



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
From: Jacob Westfall [mailto:jake@jpw.biz] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:31 AM
To: emergency-cap-profiles@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [emergency-cap-profiles] Definition of "Profile"

> "In standardization, a profile consists of an agreed-upon subset and
> interpretation of a specification. Many complex technical specifications

This definition is very broad and while suitable as a generalization for
something like Wikipedia, it is not specific enough to provide direction for
a standards technical body.  I think there needs to be some specific
criteria outlined that determines what constitutes a "profile" and
guidelines for their creation and submission to the TC.

For instance in the above quoted statement, the term "subset" is used.  Can
a CAP profile be a subset of CAP?  If not, then this commonly understood use
for a profile needs to be clarified.  If yes, then how is this accomplished?

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

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Oops, 
I should have said NWEM profile not standard.


Gary A. Ham
http://grandpaham.com
703-899-6241
Grandpa can do IT!
 



                                                

					
                                                    

        
                                                
				
                                                

                                                    
                                                        
                                                        Original Message
                                                
                                                Original Message-----
From: Gary Ham [mailto:hamgva@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:10 PM
To: emergency-cap-profiles@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [emergency-cap-profiles] Definition of "Profile"

There is one thing a profile cannot do. It cannot remove required elements
or make them optional. It can choose to ignore them, but the message must
still contain them, and they must be interpretable based on the definitions
of the standard. (Even the NWEM Standard does that.)

R/s

Gary A. Ham
http://grandpaham.com
703-899-6241
Grandpa can do IT!
 


Original Message-----
From: Jacob Westfall [mailto:jake@jpw.biz] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:31 AM
To: emergency-cap-profiles@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [emergency-cap-profiles] Definition of "Profile"

> "In standardization, a profile consists of an agreed-upon subset and
> interpretation of a specification. Many complex technical specifications

This definition is very broad and while suitable as a generalization for
something like Wikipedia, it is not specific enough to provide direction for
a standards technical body.  I think there needs to be some specific
criteria outlined that determines what constitutes a "profile" and
guidelines for their creation and submission to the TC.

For instance in the above quoted statement, the term "subset" is used.  Can
a CAP profile be a subset of CAP?  If not, then this commonly understood use
for a profile needs to be clarified.  If yes, then how is this accomplished?

-- 
jake@jpw.biz
--

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